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Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker.

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Old 02-28-2017, 05:15 PM   #1
Meldras
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PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

5 handed dealer's choice home game. We typically play $0.50/$1.00 NLHE but recently switched to include more games.

CO: Super fishy. Plays too many marginal hands OOP and routinely overvalues hands. Also gets way too aggro sometimes and basically picks very bad spots. Has very little Omaha experience. We've played hands in the past where he gets 200bbs all in on the turn with like the 8th nut low, no redraw.
SB: Hero. Reputation as a good LAG in NLHE, which probably transferred over.
BB: I think it's his first time playing Omaha. Awful NLHE player as well.

Effective stacks ~$175.

Preflop:

CO pots ($1.75), button folds, hero calls with KQ42, BB calls.

Flop ($5.50): A68

Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $5.50, both call.

Turn ($16.50): J

Hero? I'm torn between leading and check/raising. I have no doubt that villains will stack off with just about any low.
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:44 PM   #2
Plsmrshenry
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

You have no high and not even the nut low so I wouldn't be looking to shovel money in this pot just yet. If they are as loose bad as you say I don't see leading as an option so I would be chking here and leafing improvement on the river. Perhaps even as little K/Q pair.
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Old 03-01-2017, 04:15 PM   #3
Spreek
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Easy fold pre. This is not a very good hand, especially not when OOP in what is likely to be a multiway pot.

Flop is whatever, against decent players, it's a fold given that you have very low equity for high, a non nut low, and no counterfeit protection.

I think on turn I'd rather just check/call. I don't think we are getting it in that great, and we could be in very bad shape vs 23. Most bad players make terrible mistakes on rivers, so keeping action open is nice as well.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:59 AM   #4
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

By leading you put the pressure on the other players to have a hand. The problem with this is if you get a lot of action you will be behind to nut low combos, or two-way 24 combos.

By check/calling you keep the pot as small as you can with a currently marginal hand. You want to keep their range open and let them bluff off so you can be in good shape against their range.

But those are not the only two options. You have to be really confident about your 2nd nut low in order to call a large bet. It's easy for you to be scooped or quartered. Check/fold is not out of the question.

But based on what you say about CO, i suppose you have to bite the bullet and call a large bet. But you should not get in the habit of calling down pot bets with just a low hand. Say you don't improve on the river, are you going to call another pot sized bet with just 2nd nut low? You have to be really careful.
--

I agree with Spreek; I do not think you should be calling raises pre out of position from the small blind with this hand. You should be extremely selective about calling raises from the small blind.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:08 AM   #5
monikrazy
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Against players described bet/call the turn looks good
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:13 PM   #6
Meldras
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Just wanted to reiterate that villains really have no clue what they're doing. Like seriously they have under 10 hours of PLO/PLO8 experience combined. As bad as a hand this is, folding pre seems ridiculous.

I'm very confident that i will get action from any low. Without actually plugging numbers in, I think my low has about 80% equity, and my high should be around 15-20%. So I'm 50% vs two opponents, roughly. I'm totally fine with getting all the money in on the turn.

I realize that this is a very specific set of opponents and maybe it's not really worth posting about, but at the same time, I've also been very successful at getting this game to run fairly frequently, so I'd still like to optimize my edge wherever possible.
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Old 03-02-2017, 01:35 PM   #7
amok
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

FWIW I think no matter how bad they are, this hand is just a fold pre. This hand plays so poorly, rarely flops big and just lands you into spots where you have to commit with a mediocre one-way hand i.e. you are doing exactly what you describe he is doing: "Plays too many marginal hands OOP and routinely overvalues hands."
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:12 PM   #8
Meldras
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Quote:
Originally Posted by amok View Post
FWIW I think no matter how bad they are, this hand is just a fold pre. This hand plays so poorly, rarely flops big and just lands you into spots where you have to commit with a mediocre one-way hand i.e. you are doing exactly what you describe he is doing: "Plays too many marginal hands OOP and routinely overvalues hands."
Fair point - it's worth revisiting and I could be convinced that it's a fold.

Thing is, I am a favorite to win the low vs two random low cards assuming a low is possible. Add in a pair, and I can easily bet 3 streets for value. If it's 3-ways, I probably have to tighten up a bit, but even if I only continue on low boards with an A, I should still have way enough implied odds to make up for the times I miss, no?
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:25 PM   #9
Spreek
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meldras View Post
Fair point - it's worth revisiting and I could be convinced that it's a fold.

Thing is, I am a favorite to win the low vs two random low cards assuming a low is possible. Add in a pair, and I can easily bet 3 streets for value. If it's 3-ways, I probably have to tighten up a bit, but even if I only continue on low boards with an A, I should still have way enough implied odds to make up for the times I miss, no?
It's rare to hit a board that good (you need 3 low cards that aren't a 2 or 4, and a K or Q). And when it's hard to hit a board AND it doesn't even give you the nuts either way and could actually lead to you getting scooped a decent amount (actually very often multiway), it's hard to really say you have implied odds.

In a 5 handed game, someone is dealt a better low than yours about 63% of the time. And judging by their descriptions, they certainly aren't going to be folding pre with it.

Last edited by Spreek; 03-02-2017 at 09:31 PM. Reason: 63% of the time
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:39 AM   #10
Fizzgibble
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

If they both have two random low cards you have 27% equity on that flop.
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:17 PM   #11
bot01101
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Nut low will often lose money in PLO8. You have have second nut low and no high. I would suggest to try to see the river as cheap as possible. If you hit flush , you might scoop. If you hit nut low, you could possibly win entire pot with large size bet.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:31 AM   #12
DaCus3
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

You shouldn't be calling this hand preflop, but that being said, just check call turn... your hand is too good to turn into a bluff, and not good enough to go for value.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:18 PM   #13
Meldras
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Alright, fair enough, fold pre.

I still don't really understand the cautiousness postflop though. Here's my equity on the flop vs what I think their continuing ranges are (my equity jumps to a bit over 50% on the turn):

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: A68
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
KhQh4c2s41.67% 47,63682,9283,725384,87161,354
$L$L**, AA**, 66**, 88**, A6**, A8**, 68**, 57**, 79**29.13% 20,746251,56511,21474,36736,712
$L$L**, AA**, 66**, 88**, A6**, A8**, 68**, 57**, 79**29.20% 20,768252,47711,16274,25536,720
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:52 PM   #14
Spreek
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Your opponents are probably not calling $L$L**. Keep in mind, this includes hands like 2222, 333J, J926, etc.

If you want "any hand with a lo on the flop" you need to do it more carefully.
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:27 PM   #15
Meldras
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Re: PLO8 0.25/0.50: Deep, super fishy game

Whoops, my bad. Redid the ranges and I drop to like 39% on flop and 49% on the turn.
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