Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Omaha/8 Discussions of Omaha High-Low Split (Eight or Better) Poker.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2010, 05:46 PM   #201
Grizzlious
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 10
Re: Newbie to O8 starting hand queries

Only time you're playin 99104 is if you can limp on the button. Wouldn't ever play it out of position same goes for QQxx and KKxx. It's always easier to find an excuse to limp call oop with AAxx. At a loose table you're raisin AA78 AA79 every time.
Grizzlious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 12:26 AM   #202
Lovesantiques
A Classic
 
Lovesantiques's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maryland, 'bout 20 miles NW of DC
Posts: 3,800
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Thank you all for the advice. I really do appreciate it.

Lee
Lovesantiques is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 02:06 PM   #203
cbt
veteran
 
cbt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,963
Re: Newbie to O8 starting hand queries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzlious View Post
Only time you're playin 99104 is if you can limp on the button. Wouldn't ever play it out of position same goes for QQxx and KKxx. It's always easier to find an excuse to limp call oop with AAxx. At a loose table you're raisin AA78 AA79 every time.
wow mate don´t try to give advice if you not really know what u´re talking about. don´t try to be mean or anything but that doesn´t help and is plain wrong/bad.
cbt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 02:45 PM   #204
riazul
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

how is the way to measure/compare different low hands against each other?
riazul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 03:29 PM   #205
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by riazul View Post
how is the way to measure/compare different low hands against each other?
• Count aces as "1" and the lowest card.
• Count from the top down. That is list the cards in decreasing order, starting with the highest and going down to the lowest.
• Suits don't matter.

For example if your hand is Q,Q,A,4 and the board is
K,5,2,3,2, your low is 54321, a wheel. (You also have a straight flush for high).

For example if your hand is K,K,4,2 and the board is
K,6,5,8,2, your low is 86542, not a very good low hand because 65421 is the nuts, 65431 is the second nuts, and 65432 is the third nuts. One of these, probably 65421 (first nuts) or maybe 65431 (second nuts) will usually end up being the winner for low in a typical full table game. 65432 (third nuts) is probably a loser for low, but might win as a straight for high if nobody has the heart flush.

You also have trip kings for high, a possible winner for high if nobody has the heart flush or a low straight.

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 04:21 PM   #206
riazul
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

but after I have put them in decreasing order, how do I compare two different hands? What exactly am I looking after to find the best low hand?
If your low hand has an ace and mine doesn't, will yours be the lowest low hand?
riazul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 04:33 PM   #207
mustdobetter
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 431
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
but after I have put them in decreasing order, how do I compare two different hands? What exactly am I looking after to find the best low hand?
If your low hand has an ace and mine doesn't, will yours be the lowest low hand?
Quote:
Count from the top down
A hand without an ace can potentially beat one that does have an ace for low, it all depends on the other cards. For example any 7 high low (e.g. 76543) would beat any 8 high low with (or without) an ace (e.g. 84321) because the winner of the low, counting from the top, has been decided before you get to the ace.

Last edited by mustdobetter; 11-11-2010 at 04:40 PM.
mustdobetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #208
bumblebee99
Badugi Ninja
 
bumblebee99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: FUBT
Posts: 10,998
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by riazul View Post
but after I have put them in decreasing order, how do I compare two different hands? What exactly am I looking after to find the best low hand?
If your low hand has an ace and mine doesn't, will yours be the lowest low hand?
Not necessarily. You are counting from the top down, so:

8654A is not as good as
85432 because the 5 plays.

So,

75432 is worse than,
7532A principally because of the 4 not the A.

Last edited by bumblebee99; 11-11-2010 at 04:35 PM. Reason: i'm a slow pony :(
bumblebee99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 04:49 PM   #209
mustdobetter
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 431
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

I just wanted to post to say thanks Buzz for including the links to the wells in the OP. It encouraged me to read them and I found doing so enjoyable and worthwhile.
mustdobetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #210
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by riazul View Post
but after I have put them in decreasing order, how do I compare two different hands? What exactly am I looking after to find the best low hand?
If your low hand has an ace and mine doesn't, will yours be the lowest low hand?
The quick answer is you compare the two hands, reading each from the top down. The hand with the lower number wins for low.
  • For example, 65432 is a lower number than 75431.

    If the common board were JJ543, you held T74A and your opponent held KK62, then your opponent would have the better low hand.

    Your opponent's 62, combined with the 543 from the board would make a 65432 low (straights don't count against anyone for low).
    Your four would have been counterfeited by the board and to make a five card low, you'd have to use 7A from your hand. You would have a 75431 low.

    And as stated above, 65432 is a lower number than 75431.

Clear? (If not, keep asking in this thread and we'll keep answering until it is).

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 06:27 PM   #211
riazul
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 8
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

big thanks to buzz, bumblebee99 and mustdobetter for helping me out with my latest question!

I always thought you counted the lowest card first but now I understand that you compare your highest low card with your opponent's highest low card
riazul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2010, 01:34 AM   #212
Phat Mack
Pooh-Bah
 
Phat Mack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: People's Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,642
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by riazul View Post
big thanks to buzz, bumblebee99 and mustdobetter for helping me out with my latest question!

I always thought you counted the lowest card first but now I understand that you compare your highest low card with your opponent's highest low card
Right! and if your highest low cards are the same, then you compare the second highest low cards, and so on.
Phat Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 10:28 PM   #213
BitchiBee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BitchiBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 24,156
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

two preflop spots, are these correct?

Full Tilt Poker $2.00/$4 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 8 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with 2 K J A
Hero calls, 6 folds, BB checks

Full Tilt Poker $2.00/$4 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 7 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG+1 with 2 K 3 8
UTG calls, 5 folds, BB checks

Flop: (2.5 SB) 2 8 3 (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, BB folds
BitchiBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2010, 05:17 PM   #214
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee View Post
two preflop spots, are these correct?
Fine. You played the first hand and folded the second hand.

You could also have raised pre-flop with the first hand,
2 K J A, but merely calling is fine too. Which is better, calling or raising, depends on your opponent(s) and on how you play various other hands.

The second hand, 2 K 3 8, is one that tends to be over-rated by newbs, perhaps because of the trey-deuce two-card combination for low, perhaps because the hand is double suited.
The second hand lacks high card strength and the eight doesn't really fit very well with anything.
Of course, you can try a move with any hand. But in general, and at least as a newb, you should look for a better spot to get involved.

Quote:
Full Tilt Poker $2.00/$4 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 8 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG with 2 K J A
Hero calls, 6 folds, BB checks

Full Tilt Poker $2.00/$4 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 7 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is UTG+1 with 2 K 3 8
UTG calls, 5 folds, BB checks

Flop: (2.5 SB) 2 8 3 (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, BB folds
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2010, 07:51 PM   #215
BitchiBee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BitchiBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 24,156
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

thanks buzz
BitchiBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 04:53 PM   #216
BitchiBee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BitchiBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 24,156
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

is AAA2 a good or even playable hand?

in BB if the button limps, sb raises is this a good spot to 3bet to isolate aka limit holdem?
BitchiBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2010, 05:32 PM   #217
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee View Post
is AAA2 a good or even playable hand?
Yes. (In general, I'd play it). It doesn't make a whole lot of difference if the deuce is suited to one of the aces or if the hand is a rainbow... AAA2 is still a very good starting hand. Here's a place you can go to look up the relative ranking of starting hands:
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations?g=o8

Quote:
in BB if the button limps, sb raises is this a good spot to 3bet to isolate aka limit holdem?
It kind of depends on who is seated on the button, and also who the small blind poster is (and how they'll both react to the three-bet). I wonder why the small blind poster has made it two bets. Sometimes your opponents will play some certain way against some players and a different way against other players.

The game is Omaha-8 but you still have to "play poker" (or get lucky) to be successful. There's no way around knowing how your specific opponents each plays in any poker game.

Here's a simulation comparison of AAA2-rainbow with A*** and ****. You can see rather clearly that AAA2 is probably the pre-flop leader.
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AsAhAd2c41.51% 157,391202,6812,667154,50451,179
A***29.66% 104,490165,7896,71576,36551,179
****28.83% 108,459224,8154,04815,8020

But we can rather quickly come up with hands for opponents where that isn't so (where Hero is in last place). For example:
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
658,008 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AsAhAd2c25.18% 92,495124,47613,0370213,478
Ac2h3c4h33.31% 106,127161,50713,03794,790213,478
Td9d8c7c41.51% 184,399358,98803,6120

Buzz

Edit: I don't want anybody to come away from this post thinking Td9d8c7c is a good starting hand. It isn't. It's a poor starting hand. As a newb, we recommend you voluntarily play good starting hands, starting hands that have relatively high probabilities of ending up winners.

Yet relative to certain specific other starting hands, Td9d8c7c could have the best chance, the highest probability, of ending up the winner.

But of course we don't know what other specific starting hands have been dealt to our opponents. And we don't know, ahead of time (unless we're cheating) the specific cards that will appear on the flop, turn, or river.

The second simulation is intended to illustrate that the value of AAA2 (or any hand) is relative to the particular cards chosen for the hands that oppose it.

Only that and nothing more.

When interpreting simulations, be careful not to read into them more than is intended.

Buzz

Last edited by Buzz; 11-30-2010 at 05:12 PM.
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 02:34 PM   #218
str8 or better
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Israel
Posts: 2,310
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
Here's a simulation comparison of AAA2-rainbow with A*** and ****. You can see rather clearly that AAA2 is probably the pre-flop leader.
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AsAhAd2c41.51% 157,391202,6812,667154,50451,179
A***29.66% 104,490165,7896,71576,36551,179
****28.83% 108,459224,8154,04815,8020

But we can rather quickly come up with hands for opponents where that isn't so (where Hero is in last place). For example:
ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
658,008 trials (Exhaustive)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
AsAhAd2c25.18% 92,495124,47613,0370213,478
Ac2h3c4h33.31% 106,127161,50713,03794,790213,478
Td9d8c7c41.51% 184,399358,98803,6120

Buzz
Except that when you contemplate a play, you consider how your hand fares against ranges of hands (AKA first simulation) and not against specific hands (AKA second simulation).
It will be like saying that when hero holds 23KK he may be better off not raising villian's turn bet on board of A58K because even though his hand is in good shape against a wide range of hands, it's in poor shape against AA23.
In short, the first simulation is very good while the second simulation is very misleading.
str8 or better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2010, 03:56 PM   #219
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8 or better View Post
In short, the first simulation is very good while the second simulation is very misleading.
Yes, the second simulation could be misleading. I'll edit the post.

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 04:45 AM   #220
BitchiBee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BitchiBee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 24,156
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

ok so in every game I play I like to start tables as the Joe Tall system has never failed me, but it seems in lo8 HU and 3 handed are completely different then 6+ and shorthanded play is baffling me.

Is there any material on HU lo8? I've searched everywhere but can't find any
should I just not play shorthanded until I get a better feel for this game?
BitchiBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 09:33 AM   #221
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by BitchiBee View Post
Is there any material on HU lo8?
Ray Zee's book has a chapter titled Multiway Versus Short-Handed Play. In that chapter he discusses heads-up play. But it's not an extensive chapter on how to play heads-up. Seems to me we've had threads about it, but I don't have any links for you.

You might get some info by googling.

Quote:
should I just not play shorthanded until I get a better feel for this game?
Very hard for me to advise you regarding that question. (Seems to me you should play what you want to play).

As you seem to be aware, heads up play is somewhat different from three or four handed, which is somewhat different from six-max, which is somewhat different from full table. But you'd expect that in any poker game.

I don't think full table play prepares you for heads-up play any more than heads-up play prepares you for full table play.

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2010, 06:26 AM   #222
PositiveVibes
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: ConcreteJungle
Posts: 104
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

I´ve been playing PLO8 and NLO8 mtts,
br management goes the same as nlh ?
and for sng ?
i´ve been doing some changes in my game, specially about the relation stack x blinds, considering there are no antes, for example:
NLO8 tournament, 2tables left, i´ve about 10-12bb, should i be open-shoving any A2xx ? any position ? tyty
PositiveVibes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2010, 06:16 AM   #223
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by PositiveVibes View Post
I´ve been playing PLO8 and NLO8 mtts,
br management goes the same as nlh ?
and for sng ?
If you're a professional poker player who earns the bulk of his income from playing poker, you should practice bankroll management so as to avoid gambling away your stake and going broke. Or if you aspire to becoming a professional poker player, you should practice bankroll management. Or if you're a semi-pro, you should consider using bankroll management principles.

Although variance and standard deviation would be different for different poker games, seems to me the basics of bankroll management would be about the same for any form of poker.

If there's any more discussion about this, I'll move it out of the newb's thread.

Quote:
i´ve been doing some changes in my game, specially about the relation stack x blinds, considering there are no antes, for example:
NLO8 tournament, 2tables left, i´ve about 10-12bb, should i be open-shoving any A2xx ? any position ?
I don't think or play that way. I guess it's a matter of opinion.

If there's any more discussion about this, I'll move it out of the newb's thread.

These are not exactly the type questions we had in mind for the newb's thread.

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 01:01 PM   #224
Bono_1987
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
Some advice to a new in flo8

Hi,
I have started playing flo8 and I think this is very interesting game. My bankroll is something about 200$ and now I play 0.25$/0.5$. I think this is enough on this limit.
So can You tell me some basic tips to this game ?? And what kind of brm I should to use ??( 500BB??) And maybe You know something interesting videos about flo8


Sorry for my english
Bono_1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2010, 01:15 PM   #225
darkside2007
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 198
Re: Some advice to a new in flo8

For Bank Roll Management you can play 25/50c no problem. You need to have 300 big bets for whatever level you plan on playing. You can play at this level until your BR reaches $300 and then you can move up to .50/1$. If your BR falls below $150 you should move down to the next level.

I can't give you much in the way of advice because I have never played at that limit. There are plenty of great conversations bout LO8 here and you should check out the newbie thread for sure.
darkside2007 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online