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Old 09-24-2010, 09:02 PM   #151
checkmate36
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Wow, Buzz, amazing response, thanks!
Yes I agree. As a new player to PLO8 I have been reviewing this thread and the information Buzz has given has been very helpful.

The info regarding playing full ring very tight while being a beginner is something I will work on while I'm in my learning period (which will probably be a while in this interesting game).
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:42 AM   #152
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPowers View Post
This is def a newb hand. I'm playing some super microstakes O8, and this hand came up, and I'd like to hear if people are ok with how I played this? Excuse the bad formatting, its the best I could do.

Hand info:
Game: Omaha 8 PL
Blinds: $0.01/0.02

Table info:
Seat 2: Button ($.95)
Seat 3: HERO ($2.86) Posts small blind $0.01
Seat 4: BB ($1.78) Posts big blind $0.02
Seat 6: UTG ($1.91)
Seat 7: UTG+1 ($2.39)
Seat 8: MP1 ($.65)
Seat 9: CO ($1.38)

Dealt to SB A 2 3 5


Preflop: (Pot: $0.03)
CALL UTG $.02,CALL UTG+1 $.02, RAISE MP1 to $.11, CALL CO $.11, Button FOLD, CALL HERO $.10, FOLD BB, CALL UTG $.09, CALL UTG+1 $.09

MP1 had been raising 100% of the time, on the average 2 other people called. With MP1's open range, I thought this hand was good enough to see a flop, and very easy to get away from on the wrong flop.

Flop: (Pot: $.57)
2 5 8

CHECK SB, CHECK UTG, CHECK UTG+1, CHECK MP1, BET CO $.57, RAISE HERO to $2.28...

I wanted to check raise MP1 to get the money in good, as I had the nut low already , a wheel redraw and two pair, but when MP1 checked, and the last position bet, I figured that was still good enough for this play, since he could be trying to steal.


Good play/Bad Play? Good thought process/bad thought process?
Hmm didn't see this until now but was shocked by the responses. You can't flop much better than this, this is your miracle flop. Get in as much money as possible right now.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:01 AM   #153
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

is there a program i can download so when i read hands on this forum and i can put the cards into the program so i can get a better illustration of what is happening?
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:13 AM   #154
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by murdahc View Post
is there a program i can download so when i read hands on this forum and i can put the cards into the program so i can get a better illustration of what is happening?
If you mean to check odds and such, http://www.propokertools.com/simulations is most popular I believe.
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Old 10-02-2010, 04:32 PM   #155
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by adacan View Post
Hmm didn't see this until now but was shocked by the responses. You can't flop much better than this, this is your miracle flop. Get in as much money as possible right now.
An honest mistake caused posters to respond the way they did. Reread page 10 and see for yourself.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:01 AM   #156
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

I have a question please. Noob NLHE--->NLO8

I was playing 25 No Limit Hi/Lo....



Why do all of these 20/1 players just cold shove preflop? This look like NLHE 5 years ago. Am I really going to flat call 100bb without AA2x?


They also overbet/shove instead of somthing close to pot-size when they 3bet - pre and post flop.


Why would anyone call unless they were an extreme favorite? Thier frequencies are not often enough to suppose that they are mixing in bluffs.



TY
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:51 AM   #157
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by McStackn View Post
I have a question please. Noob NLHE--->NLO8

I was playing 25 No Limit Hi/Lo....



Why do all of these 20/1 players just cold shove preflop?
I don't think they all cold shove preflop. But some do.

I don't know why those who cold shove play that way. I suppose they think they'll intimidate you enough so that they'll be able to take away your money.

Quote:
This look like NLHE 5 years ago. Am I really going to flat call 100bb without AA2x?
I don't know. If someone does it time after time when you have posted the blind, you'll eventually get tired of having your blinds continually stolen and will be at least tempted to defend when you have a decent hand.

Quote:
They also overbet/shove instead of somthing close to pot-size when they 3bet - pre and post flop.
Some of them do.

Quote:
Why would anyone call unless they were an extreme favorite?
You don't have to play with someone who shoves every time. On the other hand, you should be able to beat someone who shoves every time.

I think part of playing well is being willing to play some coin flips. If you show you're willing to play some coin flips, I think you tend to avoid getting pushed around.

Quote:
Their frequencies are not often enough to suppose that they are mixing in bluffs.
I don't understand.

Buzz
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:50 AM   #158
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

In terms of pre flop starting selection. High card only hands. How should we think of them in unopened pots from utg/mp/co/btn? completing Sb with limpers. Folded to sb. Facing single raises in BB?
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:52 AM   #159
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Question Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

why hasnt Buzz done a well yet?
is he to shy or was he never nominated
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Old 10-07-2010, 08:54 AM   #160
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

In late position co/btn facing limpers what type of hands should we raise? What hands should we now limp behind?
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:14 AM   #161
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by pureklas View Post
In late position co/btn facing limpers what type of hands should we raise? What hands should we now limp behind?
Raise hands that do well in HU pots AKJ2 for example and limp hands that do well in multiway pots hand like A234!
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:16 AM   #162
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStackn View Post
I have a question please. Noob NLHE--->NLO8

I was playing 25 No Limit Hi/Lo....



Why do all of these 20/1 players just cold shove preflop? This look like NLHE 5 years ago. Am I really going to flat call 100bb without AA2x?


They also overbet/shove instead of somthing close to pot-size when they 3bet - pre and post flop.


Why would anyone call unless they were an extreme favorite? Thier frequencies are not often enough to suppose that they are mixing in bluffs.



TY
They never bluff when they do that! And they do it because some times they will get calls from worse hands from random fish and also they are afraid of making though decisons so they just make it more simple by shoving with nuts rather then raise and face a bet when scare card comes!
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #163
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by pureklas View Post
In terms of pre flop starting selection. High card only hands. How should we think of them in unopened pots from utg/mp/co/btn? completing Sb with limpers. Folded to sb. Facing single raises in BB?
In my humble opinion, what to do with a high only hand depends very much on the exact circumstances. It's not just a matter of position.

Some experts recommend raising with a playable high only hand. Others recommend limping. All high only hands are not very playable. I think of all high only hands that are playable as speculative. And I think you can raise or not with any hand you play. But that's not beginner or newb type advice.

You might get some people posting a response who think they have a generic answer. And different opinions are welcome in this forum. However, I simply don't have a generic answer for myself, and thus I certainly don't have a generic answer for anyone else regarding what to do with a high only hand.

It should be noted that one should play more aggressively as the game becomes shorter handed.

In general, I prefer to see the flop before making much of a move, but I do sometimes raise before the flop. Whether I do raise or not is more dependent on the particular group of opponents I face, how I think the raise will be perceived, and what I expect the reaction to be. In other words, I'm "playing poker" with regard to pre-flop raises. Anyone would have (hopefully) difficulty putting me on cards on the basis of whether I raised pre-flop or not. But I'm not a beginner and that's not beginner or newb advice.

Quote:
In late position co/btn facing limpers what type of hands should we raise? What hands should we now limp behind?
I don't have a generic answer.

Buzz
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #164
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by manndl View Post
why hasnt Buzz done a well yet?
is he to shy or was he never nominated
Too shy.

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Old 10-08-2010, 03:18 PM   #165
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Omaha8 ABC play

I have just started playing omaha8 and i do enjoy it, but i only know the very basics of this game e.g. Starting hands.

I love playing MTTs but have no clue how to play omaha8 mtts so what im asking is for help and tips to win at the micro mtt levels

Thanks
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:18 PM   #166
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Re: Omaha8 ABC play

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Originally Posted by so zick View Post
I have just started playing omaha8 and i do enjoy it, but i only know the very basics of this game e.g. Starting hands.

I love playing MTTs but have no clue how to play omaha8 mtts so what im asking is for help and tips to win at the micro mtt levels

Thanks
There are different ideas about how best to play Omaha-8 multi table tournaments. One style is to try to either amass a large stack quickly or bust out of the tournament and do something else. Another style, and the one to which I ascribe, is to play very tightly, waiting for an opportunity to present itself while observing how your various opponents play.

I play much more tightly in tournaments, in general, than I do in cash games.

"Survival" is the watchword in multi-table tournament play. You have to make the final table in order to win the tournament. However, you don't want to arrive at the final table with the shortest stack (because the player with the shortest stack tends to be the "target").

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Old 10-08-2010, 07:26 PM   #167
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by manndl View Post
why hasnt Buzz done a well yet?
is he to shy or was he never nominated
I came in here to look for/ask this (edit: and saw your response).

Buzz, reading some of your HH responses, your thought process seems scarily detailed for a noob like me. Is it just the case, like with NLHE vets, that you've seen the same scenarios so often that, with work away from the tables also, it just becomes second nature?
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:21 PM   #168
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by bumblebee99 View Post
I came in here to look for/ask this (edit: and saw your response).

Buzz, reading some of your HH responses, your thought process seems scarily detailed for a noob like me. Is it just the case, like with NLHE vets, that you've seen the same scenarios so often that, with work away from the tables also, it just becomes second nature?
I don't think it's ever exactly "second nature" because you always, in my humble opinion, should be playing your opponent(s) and they generally want to be as deceptive as possible, which means you can have the same cards one time as another and yet the play will be different.

Omaha-8 can be a complex game, but people play on different levels. Some opponents are going to think more clearly and size you up better than others. And you'll size up some opponents better than others.

If all you care about is winning, my general advice is to find a group of opponents you can beat and then beat them, but do it in such a way that they'll have a nice time and will want to play you again and again.

Buzz
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:06 PM   #169
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

I think this is the right forum. I'm completely new to Omaha and newer to hi/lo.
I was wondering what my thoughts should be during this hand, it seems like I'm just drawing for a king and hoping the board runs out 9+
How often do you play for just the hi in hi/lo? Call once pf to see the flop and continue only if there is no low possible

Thanks for your help!


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.20 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with K Q K J
1 fold, MP raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (8 SB) 5 2 T (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP calls, Hero calls, SB calls

Turn: (6 BB) 5 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls

River: (10 BB) Q (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero folds, SB folds, BB folds

Final Pot: 10 BB
MP wins 9.5 BB
(Rake: $0.10)
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:14 PM   #170
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by khanrava View Post
I think this is the right forum. I'm completely new to Omaha and newer to hi/lo.
I was wondering what my thoughts should be during this hand, it seems like I'm just drawing for a king and hoping the board runs out 9+
How often do you play for just the hi in hi/lo?
Quite often, actually. No low is possible two boards out of five, and even when low is possible, sometimes nobody qualifies for low.

But your starting hand lacks an ace. Aces are the best high card and also the best low card. To give you an idea of the importance of an ace, here's a simulation with your starting hand, a starting hand with an ace plus three random cards, and a starting hand with four random cards.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
KdKsQhJd32.45% 132,560252,0135,68300
A***39.50% 126,227184,0677,209223,57517,923
****28.05% 77,196153,1558,719127,32817,923

You can see that the hand with an ace is further ahead of your aceless starting hand than your aceless starting hand is ahead of four random cards.

I'd play the hand as a speculative hand, but I don't recommend that you play it. Instead, I'd advise you to play very tightly while you learn the game. Somewhere earlier in this thread I suggest a bare bones list of starting hands for Omaha-8 newbs.

Quote:
Call once pf to see the flop and continue only if there is no low possible
Not exactly.

Quote:
Thanks for your help!


Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.20 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with K Q K J
1 fold, MP raises, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls
OK for someone who knows the game.

Quote:
Flop: (8 SB) 5 2 T (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP calls, Hero calls,
No. In my humble opinion, unless you know something about your opponents you have not told us, this hand should be folded right here. You simply do not have a good enough fit with this flop to continue from here.

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Old 10-12-2010, 02:30 PM   #171
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Thanks for the extremely detailed response, I'm going to read it over a few more times.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:07 AM   #172
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Hi I used to play omaha8 micro's 25c/50c and 50c/$1 on ftp a few years back. Started to miss the game, and have been bored of other poker variations like no limit boredom etc so started playing again on stars. Anyway, interesting hand came up and wondered if someone could critique this hand. Ill put my reasoning down for each part and if you could put me straight i'd be very grateful.


Poker Stars $0.10/$0.20 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

MP posts a big blind (1 SB)

Pre Flop: (2.5 SB) Hero is CO with 8 8 A 3
UTG calls, MP checks, Hero calls, BTN calls, SB calls, BB checks

Flop: (6 SB) 2 T 9 (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero raises, BTN calls, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero calls, BTN calls

Obv my first raise was to get value for my draw, and eliminate others, and particularly as utg bets out very frequently.

Turn: (9.5 BB) 8 (4 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BTN raises, SB calls, MP calls, Hero 3-bets, BTN caps!, SB calls, MP folds, Hero calls

My reason for capping was i think me having nut fd, nut lo and 3rd set. Im thinking that my equity has to be through the roof vs str8, and probably a bad lo draw, as ppl seem to be chasing with 45 lo draws :s.

River: (23.5 BB) 6 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, BTN calls, SB calls

Obv Nut, nut has to be bet.

Spoiler:


How else should i look at this hand from each street, i realise omaha 8 is a complex game, am i looking at it too one dimentionally. The bit i think i really need an answer for is the turn. Ty peeps.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:41 AM   #173
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Hullo,

I'm completely new to PLO8 and just about know the rules. I have played only 150 hands or so, so please be gentle.

Firstly, is there an equity calculator ala pokerstove for O8?
I have no idea if I butchered this hand or no, or how much equity I had on the flop when the money went in.
I know I was a clear favourite against his spesific hand but is there a program where I can give him a range and then check my equity?


Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 4 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: $27.91
BB: $28.59
Hero (CO): $28.81
BTN: $24.84

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with J 8 7 9
Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($0.60) T J 4 (2 players)
BB bets $0.57, Hero raises to $2.28, BB raises to $3.99, Hero raises to $12.54, BB raises to $21.09, Hero raises to $28.56 all in, BB calls $7.25 all in

Turn: ($57.28) A (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($57.28) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $57.28
BB shows A 8 2 5 (a pair of Aces)
Hero shows J 8 7 9 (a straight, Seven to Jack)
Hero wins $0.00
Hero wins $55.28
(Rake: $2.00)


I know I butchered this hand. I have no reads on the guy, I had been at the table only for a few hands. I obviously lose to a straight and lose the low pot too so river is an easy fold right? OTOH there was only one low card on the flop so hard to have a straight, but in this game you have 4 cards so he can easily have like A3JJ.



Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: $27.57
BB: $15.10
UTG: $31.75
MP: $30.03
Hero (CO): $25.13
BTN: $27.14

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with K 7 K 2
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, SB calls $0.65, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.25) 4 J K (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1.75, SB calls $1.75, BB folds

Turn: ($5.75) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5.47, SB calls $5.47

River: ($16.69) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $15.86, Hero calls $15.86

Final Pot: $48.41
SB shows A 5 2 3 (a straight, Two to Six)
Hero mucks K 7 K 2 (three of a kind, Kings)
SB wins $23.00
SB wins $22.99
(Rake: $2.42)

Thanks in advance. I've not really played Omaha high either so 4 hole cards confuse me, but opponents seem even worse than me (ie they don't even know the rules)
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:54 AM   #174
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

propokertools.com is a good equity calculator for O8
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:02 PM   #175
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Thanks! Doesn't work with ranges though.

I was sure I was a bigger favourite than this, but it seems that the backdoor low draw gives him good equity

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
820 trials (Exhaustive)
board: JT4
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins HiTies HiWins Lo Ties Lo
8d7dJh9h55.79% 412503000
Ad5d8h2s44.21% 31731702060
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