http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/44...thread-737104/

Good luck!

Buzz

Is there a list coach in o8 or can I ask in the forum ?

I think those who want to coach are supposed to post in the coaching forum.

I know some of our posters also coach but I've never seen a list of O8 coaches.

We don't want the forum cluttered with coaching requests, and coaches are not allowed to respond, thus advertising their services, in the O8 forum. (They're supposed to post in the coaching forum).

Perhaps a coach will read your post here and will contact you with a private message.

Maybe an even better way for you to find a coach is for you to privately contact a poster you think would make a good coach... someone who writes intelligent posts you understand.

(I'm not interested in coaching).

Buzz

copy that . that's why I ask

Hi,

I'm a total newb to FLO8. What are some good win rates for micro stakes (.25/.50) and considering it is supposed to be a low variance game what is a good number of hands to start taking my stats seriously. I know about 100k is a good sample size for NLH but what about FLO8? 5k, 20k, 50k?

Also what is a good bankroll rule to follow? 300BB or ?

If you don't have a good guess atyour winrate, the only good bankroll rule is to learn enough bankroll theory to understand why it's absurd to talk about bankroll without an estimated winrate.

I don't know. I imagine it depends on how loose your opponents are, how much better you are than your opponents, and how much the rake is.

I don't know. I guess it depends on how much winning or losing at micro stakes means to you.

I don't know.

I don't know. When you're already playing at micro stakes, what are you going to drop down to if your bankroll gets low?

I'm a recreational player. I think playing and thinking about poker, and in particular Omaha-8 is an enjoyable way to spend my time. I play because I enjoy friendly competition. When I compete, I try to win, but at the end of a session, it doesn't matter much, in terms of my lifestyle whether I have won or lost.

However, although making money is truly not my motivation, when I compete at anything, winning is my goal. And you keep track of whether you are winning or losing with money. Thus, following that line of logic, you could conclude that I play poker to make money.

But that would be twisting things around.

Anyhow, decide why you're playing poker. If the true reason is because you need to earn enough money to sustain yourself and your family, then you have to be able to do that... you have to be able to earn enough money to sustain yourself and your family - and that is not easy.

Buzz

Oh so we guess at our win rate here in the O8 forum?

So what is an average win rate and an average bankroll for X stakes in terms of BB's?

Hard for me to tell if you're trolling or not.

My guess is you are.

Buzz
as mod

I honestly think you all are trolling me. I've got 2 guys here that have been playing poker and posting on this forum for over 10 years who say they have no idea what a good sample size is, decent win rate, or even bankroll amount.

If you go to other forums on this site even beginners can tell you in say the NLH section that you'll want 30-50 buyins, minimum 100k hands at your stakes to determine your stats, and 3-5 BB/100 is good.

In all sincerity, that's because they don't understand bankroll theory. They toss out idiocy like "30 buyins is a good bankroll for NL" or whatever, having absolutely no idea what they're talking about. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A POSITIVE ESTIMATE OF WINRATE (and a tolerated risk of ruin, by convention 1%), YOU CANNOT CALCULATE A BANKROLL. They are literally pulling numbers out of thin air.

I don't expect you to believe me but I also don't have any incentive to press the point. Google "risk of ruin" or read some of Malmuth's old books, noticing that the formulas don't work without estimates of winrate and ror. Ask questions, and I'll try to help you see where they're wrong. Or don't.

Sincerely, good luck either way.

Average winrate is negative unless you include the house. Then it's zero. But you probably knew that.

I didn't answer "decent winrate" (like asking how big is a box) or sample size, because I think we need to address misconceptions about bankroll first.

But I'm done because I don't have time to waste on being trolled. If you are sincere, learn bankroll theory and let's talk some more.

Oh, it makes perfect sense. I don't know enough theory to post in the beginners thread.

You ask a question in the beginners thread, we direct you to resources to help you learn. That's exactly how it's supposed to work.

Good luck!

Was wondering if anyone could let me know if I a missing anything with regards to learning material/resources for improving my O8 game.

Top Resources:
Ray Zee's Hi-Lo Split Poker - already ordered through Amazon. Should be delivered soon.
Pro Poker Tools simulator
Volume Volume Volume

Am i missing anything? I downloaded quite a few videos from DC as well but they're all from like 2011 and earlier. Not sure if they are relevant. What do you think; Danzasmak/DC vids vs Ray Zees Book + PPT?

Probably cant hurt to watch videos though right...if anyone has any other resources let me know. Thank you

Can't tell without knowing more about how well you play poker and what your possible weak spots are.

You might check out this thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/44...thread-737104/

Buzz

Can someone point me where to find general vpip from position and also how to input a hand and find out which % it is in

VPIP = Voluntarily Put money In Pot. I think if you use "HoldemManager," you can get automatic reads of VPIPs of your opponents. I don't use HoldemManager myself, so that I can't help you much more.

I don't know what you mean by "find general vpip from position."

In general, the later your position, the more hands you should be playing, but the optimum percentage you should play depends on your opponents, on the particular cards you are dealt, and on your playing style, among other factors.

To find the % of a hand you can use ProPokerTools
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations?g=o8

If your hand is, for example,
A,4,6,K, then type As4c6hKd into a hand box and click the rank button. The site (ProPokerTools) provides explanations and directions. Come back here and ask a question if you don't understand.

Buzz

Edit; never mind found the answer to my question in thread. Thanks buzz

What is the best HUD to use for plo/8? Also what training sites would be worth signing up for that have a good amount of o/8 strategy

I don't know.

HUD = heads up display?

Buzz

I'm brand new to PLO8 (and I did try to search to see if this has been addressed in a FAQ or something), so the phenomenon of someone jamming with only half the pot heads up causing the rake to eat up whatever third-party contributions were in the pot is new to me. It happens all the time in PLO8, and much less frequently in other games. I don't mean just that they only have half, but they also have no realistic redraw to scoop.

Do you just suck it up because these same players will also do it when you have 3/4 locked up?


Also: Can a mod delete the thread I started in the main section please?

I don't think this has been addressed in the FAQ (or probably anywhere else).

I think it depends on the particular opponents seated at your table.

I don't know how to answer your question. It seems to me that different individuals play differently. It's good to categorize and group your opponents when you can, but I don't think you play the same against everyone. You just have to "play poker."

I realize my reply is probably not very helpful to you. I'd love to see a good answer to your question, but I don't think there will be one. Sorry.

I'll do that for you, since you have asked for it to be done, but I think your question would get answered better by someone else who might not read this thread.

Tell you what: I'll leave your question there for a day and if nobody answers it, then I'll delete it.

Buzz

Thanks for the response. I may not have explained it well, because I'm not talking about situations where there is poker to be played. For example,

Me: Q Q A 4
Board: Q 2 5 T 7

I have position on Villain who shoves all-in on the river, and I stare for a bit trying to figure out wtf I'm missing, then call of course.

Villain had a low, obviously, and with that board could not possibly be representing anything bigger than a set. Maybe in his head he thought he could get me to lay down two pair or a set? But that's not the story he was telling, because he didn't get aggressive until the river, so there's no reason anyone with a decent high would fold it. It looked like exactly what it was. His nut low draw got there, and he could not have a high hand that would cause another high hand to fold, well, not QQ anyway. So we both lost money, despite "winning" the pot.

So should I be happy because the times I have QQA3 instead of QQA4 I get 3/4 from him, even though I lose money in these spots?

The point of the question is should I say something to this guy about costing himself (and more importantly, me) money with his line, or do I silently let people like this keep doing it for the times when I'm getting 3/4? I'm not sure if it falls in the category of berating a fish.

It's frustrating when that happens. But don't help your opponent improve his game.

No, I wouldn't say you should be happy. But I don't think you should be bent out of shape about it either. Don't play with this Villain if the way he plays bothers you.

Up to you. I wouldn't. Some players make a game out of collecting big when they 3/4 an opponent. Try to take advantage of this poor play.

Yes, if you're playing for money, since you should profit from his idiocy. Yes, if you're playing to have a good time and you enjoy the way this guy plays. No, if you're playing to have a good time and playing against this opponent is no fun... but in that case, find another opponent.

In any case I believe your best option is to keep silent.

Just my opinion. (I'm a recreational player, not a pro).

Buzz