I think of a "fish" as someone who consistently loses large amounts of money because he/she does not play poker well.

Perhaps you're using a different definition of "fish."

At first glance, it seems as though someone who plays 75% of the hands dealt to him/her is playing too loosely to be successful... but what if his/her opponents are all playing 100% of their hands and playing them poorly?

I think a good player adapts to his/her opponents.

And therefore I don't think you can necessarily tell who is a "fish" on the basis of his/her vpip.

(But playing 75% or more of the hands dealt to you does seem to me too loose for newbs... this is a thread for newbs).

(20% or less seems a bit too tight to me, but maybe that's a good percentage for a newb... depends somewhat on how loosely your opponents are playing).

Buzz

Ok so straight low beats ?

Sorry. I don't understand.

Buzz

Hello everyone
Could someone please recommend a good Limit Omaha8 video series to watch on deucescracked?

edit: or anywhere else

This is intended to be a thread where a newb (newcomer to Omaha-8) can come in and ask any question he/she wants, no matter how fundamental, about how to play the game of Omaha-8 without having to be intimidated about starting a new thread.

We invite those who might want to explore our game but lack the basic understanding to do so to ask any question, even if it seems "dumb" or "foolish" or "stupid" - without fear of ridicule.

We also invite any regular forum member to answer any question asked in this thread. But if you do so, please do so in a polite, friendly, warm, welcoming fashion.

If you want coaching or tutoring or if you want to advertise coaching or tutoring... or if you want to recommend a particular coach or tutor, please do so in the marketplace forum.

If you're interested in staking or getting staked, please do so in the marketplace forum.

Thanks.

Buzz

Anything on DC by Joe Tall or danzasmack is going to be very solid.

Some of the older JT vids are more of the basics, but they're often hidden as episodes of mixed game series such as From a Donk to a Stud.

Some of the newer ones (especially danzasmack's, like Make the Jack a 4) are pure LO8 but in shorthanded or tougher games. As always be careful to make sure your game conditions match those discussed in the video.

Can somebody tell me what vpip/pfr range good players in limit omaha8 have? What is considered to be too loose? On a full 6max table. thx

Depends on how loosely one's opponents are playing, but in general I think most 6 max winners voluntarily see the flop somewhere between 20% and 25% of the time. That range is a ball park figure.

If anybody knows better, please feel free to correct me.

Buzz

Can someone explain the live whatever card they have to make a low when they actually don't have one?

I'm sure everyone that played live knows what I mean.

The player doesn't have a qualifying low but use a card they call live?

The "live card" low can only happen when four or five unduplicated low cards are on board.

In Omaha, you always play three from the board and two from your hand. If there are at least four low cards on the board, you can't play all the low cards. Therefore, if you have a card in your hand that matches one of the cards on board, you can still play three of the other cards.

Sometimes "live cards" can be surprisingly strong, e.g.:

Hand 1: KQ2A
Hand 2: JT82

Board: K53-6-A

Hand 1's nut low has been counterfeited to a "live deuce", but he still scoops vs. this particular "two-card" low, because 6532A beats 8532A, and hand 2 is obligated to play the eight. (Note that hand 2 does not have a live deuce, but rather has to play the 82.)

Indeed, live deuce is the second-nut low here.

Hey guys, I'm a beginner trying to learn limit omaha 8. I play on bovada and transitioned from holdem basically because I got sick of the bad beats lol. Just have a few questions:

1. Can someone give me a few examples of hands that are right on the border between calling and folding, from different positions.

2. What do you do in early/middle position with AAxx, no suited ace, ****ty low or no low at all? (For example AA8j rainbow) Fold preflop? Set mine? Seems like folding aces pre is too tight, but if you call/raise 14 million other people call and someone draws out..

3. How should I adjust my game for short handed limit omaha 8?

4. Does anyone know of best time to play limit omaha 8 on bovada, I can almost never find 4 full tables, sometimes I have to jump to $5/$10-$30/$60 but I need to stop doing that b/c my roll can't handle it lol (its about $2,500)
Where are the best places to go to improve my game?

5. Also anyone else feel free to post your own questions in comments. Basically I wanna get a limit omaha 8 discussion page going because one thing I KNOW is people at small/mid stakes play too many hands, and it seems like an incredibly profitable game, if I could just tweak my play a bit. I'm already a little bit of a winner, but I know theres still a ton of leaks in my game. Thanks, guys!

(my first ever post on 2 + 2 so be nice, haha)

Great explanation! Thanks.

Buzz

Nobody can make a low "when they actually don't have one."

When someone makes a low using a live card, they actually do have a low... but one of their low cards is duplicated by one of the cards on the board.

As AKQJ10 very clearly explains above, there have to be four or five low cards on the board for this to happen. To have a "live" low, Hero is only going to use three of the four or five low cards on the board... and also two low cards from his own hand.

When one of the low cards in Hero's hand is the same rank as a of the low cards on the board he's not using, then the other card Hero uses from his hand is a live card.

Buzz

For me "the border" depends on how my opponents are playing. And it depends on who is already involved in the hand and who I think might yet get involved. And it depends on whether I'm playing fixed-limit, pot-limit, or no-limit. In a tight fixed-limit game where one opponent who never gets involved without A2XY or a suited ace is already involved, A334 or a hand with a suited king might be borderline for me. If that opponent is sitting behind me and thus hasn't acted yet, I might see the flop with the A334 and not downgrade the hand with the suited king. (But I'm not a beginner).

There has been a lot of discussion in this forum about how to play hands like AA8j rainbow. I think it's too good to fold in a cash game, but after a flop with no ace, I think you're probably behind any number of opponents who have also seen the flop. Thus if you raise, only get called by one opponent, and if the flop is something like 489, you would have been behind 5 opponents who saw the flop and you're still behind your one opponent who saw the flop.

Thus I personally don't generally raise preflop with that hand, but "it depends" and I don't want to argue with anyone who does. When your starting hand is AAJ8 rainbow, you're only going to catch a flop with an ace one time in eight.

You have to play more loosely when you have fewer opponents.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Please don't.

This is the newb's thread, where newcomers to the game of Omaha-8 can ask basic, non-controversial questions and get basic, non-controversial answers.

Sounds like you could use a coach... just my opinion. I'm not interested in coaching, and coaches are not allowed to advertise on this forum... but read other threads in this forum and feel free to privately contact anyone you think would be able to help your game.

Honestly, however, if I wanted to make money playing poker, I'd concentrate on Texas hold 'em. (I'm a recreational player. I play because I like to compete.)

Welcome to the forum.

Buzz

Thanks for that - so he really have A2 for A2356 second nut low, nut low would be 24,356 so i guess i understand it now, but why are people call it "Live"?

Buzz - thanks i think i got it now i guess its the use of the word "Live" which makes me confused.

With 6531 on the board, 42 would be the nut low (making 54321, a wheel), and 62, 52, 32, or 21 would be the second nut low, all with a "live" two.

He has 65321 for second nut low.
Nut low would be 54321 (a wheel).

red colored cards are board cards used.
blue colored cards are hand cards used.

(Low hands are read from high card to low card, left to right. "Ace" is written as "1" for the purpose or reading low hands).

I don't know.

Buzz

Thanks Buzz appreciate you 👍

You're welcome.

Thanks. Nice to hear.

Here's another way to look at it:
With 6531 on the board, any three of these cards could be used to make low. (Four ways to do this, since any of four cards would not be used).
The best possible low, if 653 is chosen, would be 65321.
The best possible low, if 651 is chosen, would be 65321.
The best possible low, if 631 is chosen, would be 65321.
The best possible low, if 531 is chosen, would be 54321.

where the board cards used are colored red and the hand cards used are colored blue.

Note that with this 6531 board, there are four identical second nut lows (all 65321 with a "live deuce") that are made by anyone with
• ace-deuce,
• deuce-trey, or
• deuce-five.
• deuce-six.

The nut low (54321) would be made by anyone with exactly
• four-deuce.

When playing Omaha-8, always think in two-card hand-held combinations.

Buzz

if we are in a really loose table where 3-4+ players are seeing flops. if we 3-bet with A2xx( not suited) is that a leak?

I mean I thought raising the pot, if it doesn't thin out the field, it'll just put more money in it for us to win? I read in Zees book that in loose tables raising with A2xx will only increase volatility to your bankroll.

Not necessarily.

I think it depends on how your opponents will react.

In my opinion, it's not so much how loose your opponents are, as how much information they are able to assimilate.

If your 3-bet screams to your opponents, "I probably have an ace-deuce," then intelligent opponents will know when you do and when you don't have an ace-deuce.

If you win...

...But if you lose, more of your money will be in the pot for you to lose.

...And if you thin the field, then there will be fewer opponents to pay you off on subsequent betting rounds when you do end up winning.

So, although you do increase your chances of winning with fewer players, you don't necessarily end up with more money by knocking out opponents.

Sometimes it's good to knock out opponents, but sometimes it isn't. I believe that's truer in Omaha-8 than it is in Texas hold 'em.

I believe that is generally true. I suppose it depends, among other factors, on how your opponents react to your raise... but I think it's generally true.

Posters come to this forum wondering
• with what do I fold?
• with what do I merely call?
• with what do I raise?
• with what do I re-raise?

But poker (including Omaha-8 poker) is not that simple. What you should do on the first betting round, in my opinion, depends more on how your opponents will react than on the particular starting cards you are dealt.

Should you 3-bet with A2XY?

I think sometimes yes and sometimes no.

I think 3-betting probably works better with some groups of opponents than others.

Try it and see.

Buzz

Hey guys

I'm new to plo8 and figured that my pt4 can't import hands played on 5 card tables.
Is there any way to make it work or does noone have a hud/ can see his results on 5 card tabs?
Does hm2 support 5 card plo games?

Fellow No Limit Holdem player here.

I was a bit bored today and I hopped into a few tables of 2/4 FLO8 full ring. I actually really enjoyed the game. I basically just played really tight and played for the lo side of the pot, whilst trying to freeroll or have a shot at scooping the Hi as well. I have no background w/ this game at all so I am just picking up the game but ended really well today. The games seem super soft if I just nut peddle and only raise preflop with suited A2 or some such.

I still don't know much about hand rankings. For example, I am folding hands like KK72 preflop. Or JQT8 single suited. I don't know how these play in FLO8.

The games I play in usually have at least half the table to each flop. It's not unusual to have pots go 6-7 ways. So I assume hands like A4QK should be folded multi-way since we really are looking for the nut low draws?

Are there any sites that have good training videos for FLO8?

Gracias

In my opinion, what to play and what to fold really depends on your opponents, on how loosely or tightly they're playing, on how tenaciously they're playing, and on how aggressively they're playing.

You can get a rough idea of how good a starting hand is, relatively, from ProPokerTools.
http://www.propokertools.com/simulations?g=o8
Omaha Hi/Lo Hand Ranking (unweighted) ?

Rankings for KdKs7c2s

Ranking	Description	Average	Best	Worst
10H	10-handed iterative (default)	31.0	31.0	31.0
3H	3-handed iterative	17.0	17.0	17.0
6H	6-handed iterative	24.0	24.0	24.0
VR	vs. random hand	10.0	10.0	10.0

Rankings for JdQsTc8s

Ranking	Description	Average	Best	Worst
10H	10-handed iterative (default)	49.0	49.0	49.0
3H	3-handed iterative	84.0	84.0	84.0
6H	6-handed iterative	67.0	67.0	67.0
VR	vs. random hand	90.0	90.0	90.0

The lower the number, the better the hand ranking.

I don't know what to tell you. There are different varieties of A4QK, depending on suitedness. I wouldn't generally fold any of them before the flop, but it depends on the situation and how your opponents are playing:
Omaha Hi/Lo Hand Ranking (unweighted) ?

Rankings for A4QK

Ranking	Description	Average	Best	Worst
10H	10-handed iterative (default)	9.14	4.0	16.0
3H	3-handed iterative	8.11	4.0	15.0
6H	6-handed iterative	8.63	4.0	16.0
VR	vs. random hand	8.17	4.0	16.0

Buzz

Not sure if this is the right spot but the casino closest to my house runs a PLO8 more frequently than NL. I've played a very small amount of PLO cash and have pretty much no experience with PLO8. What book would be best for me to read to start out?