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Old 05-14-2010, 04:56 AM   #26
UtherLightbringer
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
The thread in which you've posted is a beginner's thread for beginner's questions. The intent is to have a thread where beginners can ask basic questions about how to play the game of Omaha-8 and get straight answers to their questions.

No offense intended, but if you're fine tuning for the WSOP, your post doesn't really belong here in the Newb's thread.

I'll move your post into it's own thread.

Maybe someone else will give you a better response.

Buzz
eHY BUZZ,

I'm a NLH player and i've played just a thousand hand of O8. I think it's a very good game for grinders cause if u play a tight solid game you can make a lot of money with it.

I'd like to know what are the stats of a grinder (such as VPIP, PFR, AF, etc.) ? Can u help me?

TY and GL.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:37 AM   #27
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by UtherLightbringer View Post
eHY BUZZ,

I'm a NLH player and i've played just a thousand hand of O8. I think it's a very good game for grinders cause if u play a tight solid game you can make a lot of money with it.

I'd like to know what are the stats of a grinder (such as VPIP, PFR, AF, etc.) ? Can u help me?

TY and GL.
I'll try to answer this. I'll start off by saying there isn't going to be a definitive answer for your question, but I can give you some ranges.

I think for starters your stats should be somewhat affected by your buy-in level and your skill level. The lower the buy-in and the lower the skill, the tighter you should be playing. As you get better at hand reading and interpreting board textures you can loosen up. Also as your opponents get better you will have to loosen up or you will rarely get paid off on your big hands.

I would probably guess, and this is honestly just a guess, that the majority of winning players at Big bet (PL or NL) 08 have a VPIP between 15-45. I'm sure there are outliers in either direction, but that would be the best guess I have for the VPIP range.

PFR is going to very a lot depending on how often you voluntarily put money in the pot. At full ring games I see a lot of low percentages of pre-flop raising. Sometimes even in the range of 0-5. In 6-max games I see much more pre-flop aggression. I would guess that people usually raise between 1/3 and 2/3 of the hands in 6-max games that they voluntarily put money into the pot (once again this is just a guess).

I don't really feel like I understand the aggression factor stat enough to speak about it so I won't talk about that.

The best idea is probably to just find a style that suites you and go with it. Hope that helps.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:55 AM   #28
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by Tarvaris View Post
I'll try to answer this. I'll start off by saying there isn't going to be a definitive answer for your question, but I can give you some ranges.

I think for starters your stats should be somewhat affected by your buy-in level and your skill level. The lower the buy-in and the lower the skill, the tighter you should be playing. As you get better at hand reading and interpreting board textures you can loosen up. Also as your opponents get better you will have to loosen up or you will rarely get paid off on your big hands.

I would probably guess, and this is honestly just a guess, that the majority of winning players at Big bet (PL or NL) 08 have a VPIP between 15-45. I'm sure there are outliers in either direction, but that would be the best guess I have for the VPIP range.

PFR is going to very a lot depending on how often you voluntarily put money in the pot. At full ring games I see a lot of low percentages of pre-flop raising. Sometimes even in the range of 0-5. In 6-max games I see much more pre-flop aggression. I would guess that people usually raise between 1/3 and 2/3 of the hands in 6-max games that they voluntarily put money into the pot (once again this is just a guess).

I don't really feel like I understand the aggression factor stat enough to speak about it so I won't talk about that.

The best idea is probably to just find a style that suites you and go with it. Hope that helps.
TY mate,

i play FIXED LIMIT Omaha8 5c/10c on FTP. 6max, both in the LIMIT O8 section and in the 7-game.

I've noticed that it's a bunch of people that tend to see any flop, so i want to encrease the pot if i got hands like AA2K, A234, etc and i try to isolate the blinds when i'm first to act on the D with just an high hand such as AKKJ, KQJT because i know that it's a good h-u hand.

My stats for my first 750h are VPIP 42 PFR 14 with BB/100 11.50. I know that isn't such an high number to analyze, but i think that 11.50 is a good ratio. But i know that growin up in stakes i won't be able to win so much.

On FT there žs such a low action in 6max L O 8 and i have a question for you: in which other poker rooms can i find action 6max ?

TY and GL mate!
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:17 AM   #29
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by UtherLightbringer View Post
On FT there žs such a low action in 6max L O 8 and i have a question for you: in which other poker rooms can i find action 6max ?
The only two sites I play on currently are Pokerstars and Fulltilt. Pokerstars in my experience has many more available tables for O8 (both 6-max and full ring). I don't play limit, but from what I've seen PokerStars has a good number of tables at a range of buy-in levels. Possibly someone else might come along with a hidden gem site that has good action, but I'd strongly guess your best bet is to play at PokerStars.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:08 PM   #30
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

A question that could perhaps be answered by using the search function, but I thought it might be useful for other newbs: how does one multi-quote a post I've tried figuring it out on my own, to no avail. Buzz is a master at this, and it seems like a useful thing when trying to respond to a specific point. Cheers.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:32 PM   #31
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by wannabebetter View Post
A question that could perhaps be answered by using the search function, but I thought it might be useful for other newbs: how does one multi-quote a post I've tried figuring it out on my own, to no avail. Buzz is a master at this, and it seems like a useful thing when trying to respond to a specific point. Cheers.
I generally click on the "quote" button at the bottom of the post.

Then the whole post is one big quote. As I read down the post, if I get to a point where I want to respond, I'll either copy the quote with the slash mark that ends the quote and past it into where I want to comment, or I'll type square brackets, [], and write "quote" in between the square brackets and put a slash mark preceding the word "quote." Then I'll make sure there's a space and do that again without the slash mark below where I'm going to write my comment.

Then I might copy that whole thing, the square brackets with the word "quote" enclosed, and past it into wherever I want to use it. At the start of the quote, I should make sure the slash mark is deleted, and at the end of the quote, I should make sure a slash mark is included. Sometimes I forget to get the slash marks right. If I immediately read the post, I'll catch the error, and I'll edit to correct.

Buzz
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:56 AM   #32
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Since I'm a newb at PLO8, I googled "Omaha 8 starting hands," and found this. My VPIP/PFR over 300 hands has been 23/8. Clearly it doesn't take into account stuff like position, but that's a concept I'm already quite familiar with (albeit not with this game). Thoughts?

Quote:
For High:
Pairs:
Aces count as 30 points. Kings = 13, Queens = 12, Jacks = 11 and all other pairs equal their face values. A pair of 5’ is worth five points.

Flushes:
Two card flushes count 10 points with an ace. All others count 4 points . Three or four of same suite count as half.

Straights:
Two card straight with no gap or one gap count as 2 points. (Ex: 8-9 or 8-T, ) High Cards:
Unpaired Ace = 4 points, King = 2points. For Low:
A-2 = 20 points
A-3 = 15 points, 2-3 = 10 points
A-4 = 10, 2-4, 3-4 = 5 points
A-5, 2-5, 3-5, 4-5 = 5 points

Add up the points for your four cards for the high count and the low count. Add them together. It takes 25 points to call, 40 points to raise and 50 points to reraise. If you are in the small blind you can complete your bet with 10 points.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:30 PM   #33
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Since I'm a newb at PLO8, I googled "Omaha 8 starting hands," and found this. My VPIP/PFR over 300 hands has been 23/8. Clearly it doesn't take into account stuff like position, but that's a concept I'm already quite familiar with (albeit not with this game). Thoughts?
Before I ever started playing O8, actually before I ever started playing poker seriously, I found a similar (if not the same) calculation chart for hand strength pre-flop. When I first found it, I was thinking, "oh this will be easy, just follow the chart and profit." Once I actually started playing I quickly realized hand calculation charts actually have very little value overall. Things are way too player and position dependent to ever use a chart in my opinion. Plus the chart leaves you hanging once you aren't pre-flop anymore.

For example if you know for a fact that a certain player always limp re-raises his top 1% hands, and he never limps other than that. Then the next hand he limps before you and your chart tells you your hand is worth 40 points and so you should raise, but you know if you do he is going to re-raise and you know he has a hand like AAWW which crushes your hand. Why would you ever listen to the chart?

Or maybe you're on the button and everyone folds to you, the chart tells you that a limp is acceptable here, but the SB and BB play like 6/1 and 7/3 respectively. You know the majority of the time you can steal the blinds by throwing in a button raise and it is profitable to do so with almost any hand. Why would you ever listen to the chart?

I would suspect that no one on this board uses hand charts as an end all be all. I think most on here have a general idea of what hands have more equity than others, or how certain hands do against other types of certain hands, but I don't think any one decent plays so rigidly.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:35 AM   #34
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Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

Hello, First post on here, just wanted some advice, I would like to know the best site for Omaha hi lo mainly but would be playing all games, mainly 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Would like advice on rakeback deals, first deposit bonus etc.
Any advice appreciated thanks.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:42 AM   #35
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

If u are playing 1-2 i would not choose a site just because they offer a sign up bonus. I think u have to consider how many grinders the site have in firt place. Ftp/ps offers $600 i think and they have decent rakeback/vip levels.

If u are able to, i would choose a eurosite like eurosuperpoker, svenskaspelpoker, etc.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:00 AM   #36
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

Thanks, yea sign up bonus not essential, but good rakeback would be nice, the two I'm lookin at are FTP, but have heard of problems cashing out, ie. wanting proof of id etc. Also looking at betfair but dont think they got hi lo. Ideally would like a site i have heard of. Also what is the best site for rakeback, i think i used raketherake before, are they all the same.
Many thanks
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:09 AM   #37
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

While games do run occasionally on other sites, if you're looking for a regular site with reliable action you only have PS and FTP to choose between.

PS can possibly offer a better deal if you're really in it for the long haul, ie once you reach Supernova, but even then it's only a little bit better and you have to generate 100,000 FPPs at worse reward levels to get there, which depending on volume is months of play. And then you have to maintain it.

FTP offer rakeback through any number of providers, google it - RTR is probably the biggest and most reputable rakeback provider but many others have a good reputation too. So if you're really in it for the long term, PS, otherwise FTP.

Cashouts on FTP shouldn't be a concern unless there is actually something dodgy about your account, like using someone elses bank details etc - they may request ID, but only once, and after that they process all withdrawals in a matter of hours for non-US.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:12 AM   #38
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

BTW, can confirm Betfair weren't spreading 08 last time I checked just a month or two ago - so unless that's recently changed you're right.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:19 AM   #39
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

Ok many thanks, Think i will prob go full tilt, I have account from years ago which i no longer know any details for so would set up new account. I have changed address and new bank cards but is that gonna cause problem, I was gonna do it in parents/ girlfriend name card but then didnt want trouble of id etc. But if all account in their name then the ID wont be a problem i guess.
Thanks for the help.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:24 AM   #40
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

If the issue is just remembering your login info, that should be no problem, just email them your details like name and DOB and they'll dig it up for you.

But if the problem is that you don't have rakeback on the old account, be aware FTP definitely do cross-reference info, including IPs, and check for multiple accounts. They kinda suck at catching some stuff hence the various multi accounting scandals they've had, but that's not to say they don't do it at all.

So without advocating either I would say that option B is MUCH better than option A if you're looking to open a rakeback account as you really don't want to be caught with two accounts in your name. They'd likely not be completely harsh on you in that event (seize funds) since one would be a long inactive account, but it'd still be trouble and a suspended account while it was resolved. FWIW I've never been asked for ID by FTP, I don't think it's routine.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:45 AM   #41
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re: Best site for O-8? 0.25/0.50 - 1/2. Advice on rakeback deals, bonus etc.

Its very easy to cash out. I use moneybookers and from ftp-MB-ur bank it usually takes 15-20hrs on a weekday.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:32 AM   #42
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Since I'm a newb at PLO8, I googled "Omaha 8 starting hands," and found this. My VPIP/PFR over 300 hands has been 23/8. Clearly it doesn't take into account stuff like position, but that's a concept I'm already quite familiar with (albeit not with this game). Thoughts?
Is that VP$P for 6-max or full ring? I think that is the VP$P of a strong full ring player and a weaker 6-max player, though I think it can be a good winning VP$P in both games, but less optimal in 6-max than in full ring. The more and more I play 6-max PLO8, the higher my VP$P has slowly been creeping. I play almost no full ring these days. I'm excited for the day when my 6-max VP$P hits 30 and I am still crushing the game.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:59 AM   #43
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

What is a realistic winrate for a top midstakes player in PLO8? What about FLO8?
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:59 PM   #44
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Chaps, I have recently made the move to PLO8 from NL and i'm either running like good or have a pretty good grasp of how it al lworks. Anyway can you recommend a couple of good books for PLO8 6max or full ring cash games.

Nice one.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:45 AM   #45
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Chaps, I have recently made the move to PLO8 from NL and i'm either running like good or have a pretty good grasp of how it al lworks. Anyway can you recommend a couple of good books for PLO8 6max or full ring cash games.

Nice one.
Here is the link to the O8 book thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/44...thread-737104/

I haven't read that whole thread, hopefully there is recommendations that fit your criteria though. If not, maybe someone will come along with other recommendations.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:44 PM   #46
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

without looking for every one of those in the OP, which offers the best strategy advice and the best evaluation of O8 vs. regular omaha?

thanks.
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:54 PM   #47
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by birdsin2010 View Post
which offers the best strategy advice
If you're referring to the links to wells and wondering which well offers the best strategy advice, I think it's a matter of opinion.

Quote:
and the best evaluation of O8 vs. regular omaha?
I don't know what you mean by "evaluation." (I know what "evaluation" means).

By "evaluation," do you mean "comparison"?

Omaha-high-only, sometimes simply called "Omaha," is not a high/low split game. All the pots are won by the best high hand. Sometimes there's a tie.

Omaha-8, also sometimes simply called "Omaha," is a high/low split game with an eight qualifier for low. In theory, low is possible three boards out of five. In practice, roughly half of the pots are split between high and low and roughly the other half of the pots go to high only.

Or by "evaluation," do you mean where can one win more money? If so, you should realize more money has to be lost (because of the rake) playing any poker game in a brick and mortar casino or at an on-line site than is won. Some individuals are better at one game than the other.

Buzz
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:15 PM   #48
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

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Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
If you're referring to the links to wells and wondering which well offers the best strategy advice, I think it's a matter of opinion.

I don't know what you mean by "evaluation." (I know what "evaluation" means).

By "evaluation," do you mean "comparison"?

Omaha-high-only, sometimes simply called "Omaha," is not a high/low split game. All the pots are won by the best high hand. Sometimes there's a tie.

Omaha-8, also sometimes simply called "Omaha," is a high/low split game with an eight qualifier for low. In theory, low is possible three boards out of five. In practice, roughly half of the pots are split between high and low and roughly the other half of the pots go to high only.

Or by "evaluation," do you mean where can one win more money? If so, you should realize more money has to be lost (because of the rake) playing any poker game in a brick and mortar casino or at an on-line site than is won. Some individuals are better at one game than the other.

Buzz
yeah, i'm just looking for a good strategy thread to read. as far as evaluate, i guess i meant compare ... as in, what are the advantages/disadvantages to each. i can already tell i might get too frustrated with the split pots in hi-lo. but i'm looking for some thoughts on why people might think that makes that a better/juicier game.
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:29 PM   #49
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

Its juicier because its harder to learn and less intuitive to the begginer.

I enjoyed AJJB's well very much - good for SNG strat

Bob
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:52 PM   #50
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Re: Newb thread (thread for newcomer's questions) - includes links to popular wells

I need to rethink my strategy entirely. I know that a lot of what I'm doing is wrong. I have my own ideas about what I'm doing wrong here but I'd like to hear it from someone else. I find what keeps happening is I see a flop with a semi decent or better hand and either my opponents show huge aggression when i've hit moderately, or call the whole way for a two way draw and bink something to split or scoop. You may say 'variance will come back around,' but it hasn't, so it must be something that I'm doing wrong.


Poker Stars $2/$4 Limit Omaha Hi/Lo - 5 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with A Q 4 5
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls

Flop: (4.5 SB) 2 6 A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls

River: (6.25 BB) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

Spoiler:



Also, what are some vague ranges I should be playing in 6 max LO8?

Is KK58 ds playable from 1st position?
What kind of hi only hands can I play?
Is A4JT playable to a raise?

I guess 6-max is confusing for me because so often marginal hands are winners, and I'm having a really hard time gauging when to call or fold.
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