Off the top of my head, I think you have to at least see a turn. It depends on the likelihood of other sets being out there (and killing your odds). If it looks like you're going to get whipsawed on a big bet street, I think folding is probably more prudent but I'm not 100% on it since you could maybe call with implieds otr (you fold if you don't boat up, but they call with their nut low plus whatever hands.

In before Buzz does a lot of math.

Hey everyone, specifically cash grinders, what is your general br management?? Ive heard varying opinions about it and I was interested what your guys' thoughts were on this. In my case, im in general a little more aggro than the normal hilo player, so i assume my style has a bearing on my management (ie higher buyins) Thanks.

It totally depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Are you a pro or wannabe pro?

What is your income IRL? What stakes do you want to play?

How scared are you of the risk of ruin?

These days I play so little that I don't even keep a BR except for during WSOP.

HI
I am new on this forum, so welcome everybody here !!

I mainly play NLO8/PLO8 sng and MTT , but I like very much LO8
And I have couple of questions with this...

1) How can I improve my game ?? Maybe some articles or something like that. ( I didn't found a lot internet)

2) Do you think LO8 is beatable in longterm . I played on 0.5$/1$ on stars and I think the players are not the best. But I played only 2k hands.

3) What winrate is good in this stakes and higher ?? To 1/2-2/4 $

Thanks for any replies and sorry for my english ( I hope U understand my post )

1) ray zee's high low split poker book, super system 2 o8 section, training sites, predator does coaching, trelskig does coaching, past threads in this forum, mark gregorich interviews with bart hanson (cash plays @ pokerroad and deuceplays on deucescracked.com)

2) yes absolutely. for example @ $0.50/$1, 15.3k hands and i'm up $596.29

3) in any limit game if you do better than 1bb/hr you are in good shape. i beat 1/2 over 36189 hands for 3.42bb/100, includes 6max and full ring. sadly i've lost 3 quarters of my profits playing 2/4 and 3/6 in the space of less than a quarter of the hands i played at lower levels, idk if i run bad there or what, so read everyone's opinion.

Welcome to the forum.

Hard to tell you without more specific information about how you play. Post a hand history about a hand you played and about which you have questions.

Yes.

Whatever win rate satisfies you seems good to me. Focus on learning the game and your win rate will take care of itself.

Buzz

Thanks a lot for help
I will post some hands later.

But this stakes is for sure beatable. People play terriblle ( obviously I too but looks like they don't know what they are playing )

the way i started out, i just played good starting hands all the time, folded bad hands regardless of pot odds, followed the rule of having an ace in my hand all the time, and i didnt know whether to raise or call preflop, i just raised a lot with good hands. if it was a4 or a5 i would get rid, but eventually found out some of those hands are quite good especially double suited. in the long run, u cant go wrong raising with any a2, but eventually u realise everything is situational and whether to raise or not depends on suits and side cards and action in front and players and position and image. a lot of times u make more money by limping preflop by getting lots of guys to see the flop with u coz they might fold for 2 bets pre but not 1

i won doin that, but that was when a lot fewer people had clocked on what good starting hands were and that u actually should fold a lot of hands preflop

New to forum but long time Omaha 8 player. Wanted to drop by and say hello as this is my first post. Look forward to getting involved in the topics.

Welcome to the forum.

Buzz

Does anyone have a list of O8 starting hands based on rank? Wanted to find out first before using pro poker tools to compile my own. Thx

It's hard to do this because the ranking of hands varies with the number of opponents.

It's also hard to do this because sometimes
hand A > hand B,
hand B > hand C,
hand C > hand A.

(That's also true for Texas hold 'em).

An obvious problem is 16432 distinctly different starting hands is overwhelming. (Texas hold 'em only has 169 distinctly different starting hands).

The ProPokerTools genius, bachfan, came up with a clever, objective, approach that does an excellent job and which probably will satisfy your needs. From the FAQ, here's a link to the ProPokerTools site that has all 16432 distinctly different hands ordered by rank using bachfan's ingenious system:
http://www.propokertools.com/orderings/o8ordering.txt

Buzz

Hi Buzz and Lucius, So far i've used the basic tight advice of the old books. Could you explain any insights you have about more advanced concepts in the preflop hand rankings? for e.g. could you elucidate the reasons for what you said earlier about having a K is not so useful once you have AA in your hand. Also why is AJA2 > AQA2 > AKA2 in the rankings? Or how about understanding when A5 or A4 hands can be good hands to play?

Lastly what do you think about hutchinson's point count system? I've tried using that sometimes.

And also what about short handed i.e. 3-handed or HU? It's generally true that having multiway possibilities is better than nut draws right? Anything else to know?

This is a newb's thread, for elementary questions. More advanced concepts should be discussed in individual threads.

Without the pair of aces, you like another high card to go with the ace. You can make kings up with an ace kicker, for example. But aces up is a better hand than kings up with an ace kicker.

My guess is that order blocks more straights for opponents. In other words, jack is used in more straights than queen or king. Having a jack in Hero's hand makes it more unlikely an opponent has a jack when a jack is needed to make a straight.

But whatever the reason, it's a moot point. All three of those hand types (AJA2, AQA2, AKA2) are very playable regardless of suitedness. Whether one outscores the other in the showdown series used for the rankings is not important.

I guess you mean A5** or A4** hands. The particular cards chosen to replace the asterisks matter. The number of opponents and how your opponents play also matters.

If a point count system helps you, I think Hutchison's system is about as good as I've seen. Use it especially if it helps you control your urge to play hands that don't fare well in Omaha-8 games. I don't use a point count system myself.

There are different considerations for short handed play than for six-max or full-table play. In general, you play more hands and much more aggressively. As the game becomes shorter handed, you play your opponents more and more and your own cards less and less.

Your question is too broad for me to give you a satisfactory answer. You have to be more specific and this newb's thread is not the place for it.

Lots.

Buzz

I used Hutchison for a bit when I first started. As you get more experience, you'll find that you don't need it as much. You learn what the good starting hands are.

Hello!!
I am in the competition for 2 maintaining months, I have already crossed a few of you, that pleases of you even somewhere else that behind a table.
I am a player of MTT and question me, and work my strategy to come also in cash game.
I'm a french in spain and i don't speak english very well, excuse me for my grammatical mistakes.
I wonder if there is one truths profitability has to play in game cash, the number of Split makes lower the return??

Hello. Welcome to the forum.

I read that as "I've been playing MTTs for two months and have already played against some of you."

I don't understand. (Je ne comprende pas). Alas, I'm sure my French is worse than your English. Are you telling us you plan to play cash games in addition to MTTs?

OK.

I don't understand.

If you're asking if you win less when you split two pots than when you scoop one pot, yes you do.

For example, if the pot has 24 chips in it and you are one of four people who have contributed 6 chips each to the pot,
• when you scoop, you win 18 chips (plus you get your own 6 chips back).
• But when you slit and get half of the pot, you win 6 chips (plus you get your own 6 chips back).
• And when you slit and get a quarter of the pot, you don't win any chips (but you get your own 6 chips back).

Is that what you're asking?

Buzz

hey all--

new to this forum, not 2p2 (post count). theres been quite a bit of pressure in a RBR game to go PLO8 instead of NLHE.

sometimes theres only 1 or 2 solid plo8 players in the game. othertimes its a drooler/nit fest in the PLO8 round.

What books are reccommended to start learning more PLO8? i have a great deal of PLO background so im not looking for that introductory of a book. but im still confused with low flushdraws + nut low draws at times (std newbness).

thoughts/help would be appreciated

Thanks!

Hey. Welcome to the forum. What does "RBR" mean?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/44...thread-737104/

Works better for this forum if you ask questions. The more specific you can make the questions, the better the answers you'll probably get. Look through this thread to see what has already been asked. Look through other threads in this forum to get a better idea of how questions are asked and answered.

You're welcome! Good luck.

Buzz

Tx buzz !!
Yes i'm telling i plan to play on cash game in addition to mtt, but i'm not a well player in cg, i ask, the room take money in every pot, for the same if you split or if you scoop the pot, is it realy possible to get positive with what take the room? I hope you understand me, thanks to try anyway

rbr= round by round

You're telling us you're not a good cash game player.

(The words "well" and "good" are sometimes interchangeable. In this case they are not. "Well" makes no sense here, but "good" would make sense).

The poker room always charges you to play. In high stakes games you pay by the hour. In low and medium stakes games, the casino takes money from every pot. This is called "the rake." The rake is the same regardless of whether the pot is scooped or split. The rake may vary somewhat from one casino to another.

Sounds like you're asking if you can beat the rake and make money. The answer is yes if you're a good enough player relative to your opponents. Many of the posters to this forum are overall winners.

However, because of the rake, more money is lost playing Omaha-8 poker than is won.

I'm not sure I do.

Buzz

Thank you. Private games in which I participate are often played "round by round" with one person choosing the game for one round and the next person choosing the game for the next round. My experience is both pot-limit Omaha-8 and no-limit Texas-hold-'em are popular choices in these games.

Buzz

you understand me very well and it's very good to me to take lessons.

that's why i am here, i hope to be a good mtt player and i 'm working to be better, but in cash game i must find a real coaching. with us in omaha 8? someone make this?