I like them. Most shortstackers are lost once they get deeper so the implied odds are so much better.

And if you don't want to play that, you can always start a new table.

But both of you have to double your stacks to play deep on a shallow table and then your target can stand up before getting stacked. The problem is it takes a longer time to fill tables when so many seats are going to the shallow tables.

At least on the shallow tables some winners will eventually be playing deep. The CAP tables are the worst of both worlds.

So far I've been able to find enough people over 100bb's deep. It's usually pretty easy to double up, because these shortstackers are only that out of convenience and have no understanding of how to play a shortstack.

I wish they hadn't changed the buyin tbh. I can see how it's a pain for NLHE players to have a bunch of shortstackers, but I didn't think it hurt this game that much at all, as most are bad at it.

Either way, I just want to go where the bad players are.

OMG, I prefer deepstack play as well, but this is getting out of hand. You got what you wanted - separate deep buyin and shallow buyin tables and now you want to make people play deep? ffs use some logic, some people just dont want to play deep and want to gamble

and "Can we do something about this? " is just LOL. LETS PROSECUTE THEM

meh there was like 1 day where shallow tables overran regular... so what. the funny thing is most regs will not sit at a 2-4 handed table to get things started cause they cant play their nit game

This and it's not even close.

Ok, I'm giving up on the shallow tables. Had enough. I'm getting killed there.

I've tried the rolf method of get a piece of the flop and jam and I've tried isolating short stacks. Aside from the fact that I've been running well below EV, I just can't seem to win for one reason or the other. On the "regular" tables today, I was doing just fine.

I'm not sure what it is? Maybe part of the intimidation factor is gone because you only have a limited amount of risk? I honestly don't believe pre-flop raises are respected much due to this fact either. Who knows. The tables seem to be very popular though. I guess SNG's will have to help me get my FTP points.

As a side note, with FTP points, is anyone else annoyed by the fact that if you hit a certain level, say playing 100 pts a day for iron man gold status, that when it comes time to release the bonus, you are only given 6 weeks to clear it. Effectively, to get the full bonus released for 6 months of gold, you have to average a little over 200 pts a day, playing at least double what you did before or you don't get the full bonus. They need to give 8 weeks to do this.

IMHO, if you average 100 pts a day normally, you should be able to play what you normally do to get your bonus. I wrote them and asked for an extension but they told me that "in fairness to all, no extension but that I would receive a pro-rated amount at the end of that time".

Before July of last year (and their major software upgrade problems), FullTilt only gave a single month to clear the bonus, which was much more brutal (2.4x normal playing amount for Iron...potentially 3.6x normal for Gold). FullTilt still hasn't officially stated that the Mid-Year/End-Year Bonus is officially part of the program. Instead, it's just an additional bonus that they've announced each of the last several Junes/Decembers. This means it's more of a bonus than something you are entitled to based on your play.

Even though i don't like it, FullTilt requiring players to play additionally to earn all their bonus makes business sense (since they generate more rake in order to pay the bonus). It also means that the IronMan Freerolls in February and August have even more players than normal fighting for the same prize.

Am not normally bothered by language and how people use it but for some reason this is tilting me. That expression should be used when evaluating competing entities, not to just express strong agreement.

I was actually quite happy to see them give a 2 week extension.

If you multi table (10+), clearing the bonus is not that difficult at all. I think I only had $100 cleared at the end of January due to vacation and time restraints, and over the last couple weeks have managed to clear almost all of my $400 bonus.

I think the main thing to remember is that this is "freebie". Take what you can get.

^^^^NH Sir....well played^^^^^

I HATE the shallow tables

Are you stalking strictly about the 1 or 2 times a year you get a big cash bonus to clear? I think I cleared my bonus in like the first week I got back home in January - it was simple. I can't imagine anyone that maintains Iron status not being able to clear an iron bonus in a couple weeks easily.. and it is only once or twice a year that you have to "crunch". Seems pretty petty to complain - even after they gave an extension. Maybe I just play too much...

This is heavily stakes/schedule dependent. I play about 45-90 minutes per day to get my 200 FTPs per day. That's fairly easy to fit into my schedule, even though i work full time and have other obligations. To clear $600 bonus in a "couple of weeks," would require 12,000 FTPs/15 days = 800 FTPs per day = 3-6 hours per day. That's a lot, when coupled with my job and everything else. It's even worse for people who play lower stakes or fewer tables than me.

However, i have 45 days -> averaging 267 FTPs per day (instead of 167 FTPs (5000 FTPs/30 days) for regular IronMan months). That's not too great of an increase, but it's definitely noticeable. For a 100 FTP/day Gold Level, it requires more than twice as much play, from an average of 83.4 FTPs/day to 200 FTPs/day (2500 FTPs/30 days vs. 9000 FTPs/45 days).

For O8 players, this becomes even more problematic because there aren't always enough tables running at our preferred game and time.

That and you may play higher stakes and more tables than others posting here. However, it is a bonus and they do prorate it, so the moral justification for whining about it is shaky, at best.

Good points. I find it interesting that anyone can play so short a time period every day at micro stakes and still maintain their 200pts/day and ironman status. I play a mix only up to 5/10 limit and up to PL200 (rarely 400). At the end of the day, I still think its pretty lame to complain that a poker site that hands out a cash bonus for those who play alot (a bonus they don't have to even give) doesn't give enough time for those who play a lot to clear the bonus. Kind of a reverse-double-do catch-22 in the sense that if you play enough to earn a play_enough bonus, you should clearly be able to play enough to clear the play_enough bonus. Ahhhh I must sleep.

I think a month is plenty of time to clear off the bonus points needed. Maybe you need to throw in a marathon session here and there but full tilt does a good job from a business aspect of the iron man promotion. It is a freebie and if you want it so bad then make the time to clear it. Last time I got the end-year bonus I only had a month and I think I had it cleared in 2 weeks. I can't imagine attaining iron man and then not being able to clear the points in 6 weeks.

This thread is awesome, good posts throughout even when it's off the topic of regs.

I get get about 150 an hour (play about that long)....playing 7 tables.....if I throw in at Rush table then I can get 200.....right now Im on a pace to get about $400 for mid year bonus....I know i probably wont be able to clear it but nice it is prorated though

I don't understand why people hate the shallow tables so much. I hate short stacks as much as anyone. But it's basically like playing a cap game, that evolves into a regular game.

I mean I would rather play a regular table, but they are def. good for the games.

They attract players that might not play otherwise and there's no cap so when bad players double up, etc. and make bigger mistakes and you can take advantage of that.

I agree. Since the short stack tables have shown up, I have seen more and more guys playing 70% VP$P and a lot are at these weird tables, but these players are also spilling over into the regular games and are just cash cows.

You guys are missing the point that fish could just as easily be playing deep stack tables if they were created and ready for them...

I can 4 table ok, 5 at best. I'd like to do more but I time out or my concentration is thrown off or something. I'm not trying to take a moral high ground or whining approach, I just don't see why it is an issue to give you 60 days to clear it.

For instance, If you're playing for 8500 points, you would be creating a similiar amount in rake, regardless if you do it in 30,45 or 60 days. It seems the added incentive to play more would be if you wanted to clear it earlier.

Because of the program, there were so many days I would simply log on and play, even though I didn't feel like it. Sometimes, it was a bit costly to my bankroll. Truthfully, I probably lost quite a bit because I was playing when I really didnt want too. Regardless, I needed the points to maintain the status, so I played on a regular basis throughout the year, thereby contributing traffic and rake generation.

Without realizing it, my surprise came in January. For some odd reason, I thought I would be able to play my regular schedule and be able to make my points. As it was, I felt like I was on there constantly. Suddenly, I had to be on twice as much to clear my bonus. I hate leaving free money, so I made it- 1 day before expiration.

Great. FTP accomplished getting the extra play time from me but the result is, I won't be playing as much now to push for my previous gold status. I'll be content with silver and knowing that when it comes time to release my bonus, that the additional play time required won't be very difficult for me.

yeah this is not true though because deepstack tables are just intimidating to some players. this way they can go in for a smaller amount, and end up reloading a few times. this is much easier mentally to lose a couple small stacks than 1 big one

QFT fishes are different then whales