Investing in another 08 player just feels like collusion to me.



Ty for showing where the 'scam part' is high.

I don't think many posters here really understand cruelty of MTT-swings. Last year got stream of 40 tournaments in a row with 100+$ buy-ins with no cashes at all. Gladly took 6,2k$ from 215$ NLO8 (first one I ever played) just prior New Years Eve after that, though even without it I would have still been up 5-figs in 2013. And my average buy-in is prob between 20$-30$, so those swings hurt quite much.

+10% ROI for MTT-player is just lol. Unless you're MTT-rakebackgrinder and have a rich daddy to back you, swings will kill you. Especially if you're planning to play COOPs. Hate TCOOP, by the way. Sufficient ROI should be at least 30% in MTTs, and I'd generally call good player to be one with ROI 50% or more. Ofc there's expections: if some player plays 100+$ regfests 16+ tables at a time it's understandable that even best players have (much) smaller ROI.

I have been planning to sell some of my weekend-action at least in larger O8-hi-los, too. Though I have really healthy bankroll (over 30k$), it's just sometimes too demoralizing to bust out from all big ones and then concentrate on grinding tournaments ten times smaller buy-in with 1st prize being even smaller than buy-in in those bigger ones. With 20-30% mark-up it would even be wiser than grind some 20-50$ tournaments where I would prob have much better ROI. With O8 you also have additional problem which is that you usually just can't get enough tournaments if you choose not to play bigger (buy-in) ones.

But I still plan to play bread-and-butter-tournaments on my own. At least most of the time. This year has been horrible in O8 for me, so far ROI is even negative (some games in Full Tilt which have been very Tilting, but most games in Stars) while last years ROI was about +150%: http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...3EDE3.html?t=3

Mddgfc's selling topics seem very legit to me. If people can't understand that 80% * 1,25 = 100% problem is theirs, not his. And though I'd never invest in player who takes that high mark-up with reasonably low ROI, I won't mind if someone else buys parts of him. Make your own topic and start freerolling, if you have gifts for it and quit whining.

Just final note: I'm not poker professional and not claiming to be one. Poker is just a nice (time-consuming) hobby alongside studies, winnings ofc makes life easier. I also occasionally buy small shares of good players for fun, but it's too time-consuming to try make a decent $/hr out of it.

I disagree about the variance thing being a problem... I play mostly omaha and omaha8 mtts and my biggest downswing outside of scoop or wcoop was like 5k and thats playing all the 215s.

I guess your ROI is well over 10%?

I also have never suffered overall downswing much more than 3k€ ever... though I usually play really smaller buy-in events, but also lots of 100$+ tourneys. Stars megafields are killer, and even if one just plays even those smaller field O8 etc. 215s it's easy to see 10k$ downswing with decent (~25% ROI).

I agree that with good game selection and being stable winning player you can beat up variance well and you won't need so large bankroll. But good game selection is a skill that most player just don't have. It's more than just choosing all the red tournaments in PokerStars lobby

wtf?

Yea, im at like 75% ROI, the biggest leak most regs make is playing the 109 plo8 on stars and the 109 nlo8 on tilt... most of them shouldnt be playing it. unless they hit like 50-60 people its usually all regs.

I agree with the 109 on PS but not on FT it has more none hyper sattys and tends to be reasonable value imo.

yeah true that the 109 on stars is bad value as it's mostly regs(albeit many of em bad but still not enough recs/nlhe's) . As scruff said not so much on ftp.

However faarseer, you need a sample size of at least a few thousand games to get any kind of idea of true ROI and variance. <1k games doesn't mean much with regards to true roi/variance imo(if it did then I am gonna claim my 136% roi on ftp as my real roi lol)

Although what faar is saying about 10k downswing in 215's can easily be accumulated by a competent player. You yourself dacus I notice have a 13k downswing in 215 on stars. I don't think I have had that much in 215's but must be well over 5k. I also don't have any kind of sample size in 215's so i'm guessing over the long run 20k downswings are possible.

I mean you cant really cherry pick 1 specific mtt... if you are playing exclusively o8 you should basically never have a downswing of more than 5k in the regular schedule tournaments (if you are an elite player).

I'm sure if you ONLY played the 215 and 109 on stars u could downswing 20k, but 0 people do that.

yeah agree..I'd prolly say even 5k is too high for a good player but that obv depends the avg buyins.

For w/e reasons I am actually on the worst o8 downswing to date and it feels rank and not even been playing weeklies lol. Just a slow steady rapeage by pokerstars. I think it's just over 3.5k and not surprisingly it started immediately after shipping the wed $530.

How could I ever question stars rng though

edit: I wasn't cherry picking and mtt i was just adding to what faar said about 10k downswing not even half of what it could be for buyins over 20k. People obv want to play weeklies but variance can really hurt your stats. Has done to me at various stages playing the 109's and weeklies when unable to put in sufficient volume in these you gotta hope you run good.

So I'm sitting there, grinding the low limits of PL 5-card Omaha 08, and who do you think I see bumhunting, ratholing and table-selecting like a total douche?

I would never believe a player of his rank would ever go that low... (and I mean the behavior, not the stakes)
Not to mention the rather questionable fashion in which if continues to play, sooner or later is going to completely erase his bankroll (and his investors money <a hint that is>)

ok i'll have a bash....

mddgfc

although I was originally thinking rbkgutt lol....as he does like to go in and out tables but that was nl8. anyway but I was kinda joking saying him

yup I will go with my 1st answer.

I know he is table selecting, but ratholing?


Not to mention the rather questionable fashion in which if continues to play, sooner or later is going to completely erase his bankroll (and his investors money <a hint that is>)
Doubt that since he is one of the top 50 o8 players.

Sat down, doubled up on the second hand, sat out instantly and went to another table... hilarious

I think there is much difference between the 5-card and 4-card since nut lows and highs are made much easier, and he was continuously getting quadrupled by pumping up pots where he would have the nut low with no decent high. Furthermore, his range is mostly top and he barrels heavily, allowing for anyone with a bit of brains and patience to extract max value every time. I'm not saying it's generally losing, there are I guess enough wizards that would be paying off/getting scared, but this type of play makes him vulnerable to higher leveling than the average player.

Anyways, it's just interesting that from the $200 PLO8 HU which he used to own, he has now moved to the $25 5PLO8 cash games which he doesn't even seem to beat despite the stingy-douche attitude he displays.

Ye, I shouldn't have played 3/6. Just sat in and quit the next orbit sometimes.

But I don't play 0.1/0.25 though.

I'm no fan of mddgfc but he can play. Douche or not IMHO he has been the best player this weekend (along with Jani, Aless and LucSac). Last few $215 weeklies he has been cracked badly (which is fun to watch sometimes lol) but I've only seen him put 1 beat on another player in all that time (A 2 4 K hs vs A A 3 4 hs).

What's funny is seeing the hyper-turbo guys (like bleu329, cal42688 recently) being over-aggressive from position and hitting every time. Bleu329 wins today and gets it in bad 9-10 times without losing once, plus all his good hands held. He was the PS boss today, right up until the HU hand when his A 4 Q K bow cracked A A 2 5 ds all-in pre.

Anyone else believe in this boss thing? That 1-2 players are just invincible all game no matter how they play it? I wouldn't care if PS let me be the boss once in a while .........

Boss is just being on a heater. So yes.

Pretty sure bleu is not just a hyper turbo guy and probably better than mddgfc at every form of poker there is

You know who I feel like has really stopped improving lately is that Quantum guy. Its really disappointing to see his game regress so much like it has lately. I hope Quantum takes the time to work on his many leaks before he is no longer able to win.

Yea bleu plays all forms - cash/MTT/hyper - but he's no better @ hypers than you are (he plays in a similar way) and he sure as fk isn't a better MTT player than mddgfc, teruliro, mcscruff etc. Just another supernova (elite?) luckbox who constantly seems to be on a heater. You can't say consistently putting your money in when behind is good play, regardless of outcome. I have sat with bleu @ low stakes (to him anyway) and he fishes like a newbie. Bleu should spark a juicy j then exit4afilm........

Who knows? Maybe juicy j will cough up his massively positive EV and the quantum guy (plus the rest of PS) will celebrate all the way to the bank. This MIGHT be ambitious, but maybe juicy j will take the greatest wealth of experience of on-line OH8 play IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and post an ROI > 10%

Bleu won yesterday via one hand - he is all-in from the button with 5 8 K K rainbow with I think ~ 18 left in the $215 weekly, gets called by an AALX and L L L L ds hands in blinds. Busts them both and more than doubles his stack to become chip leader. Then he fished the entire field for the rest of the game. I wish I had the "skills" to do that.

Quantum dude.

Can you name me a hyper reg who has more than 10% ROI?

Thanks.

Andy.

P.S Can you tell me how to win an MTT in one hand? Never seemed to manage it myself. Any tips?

P.P.S KK58 is a monster on the BTN btw especially if you only say have <15 bbs and the blinds are nits. Variables huh...overrated IMO.

P.P.P.S How many hundreds of thousands of tourneys/money does J have to make to be a better player than you? At the minute he is up nearly 60k over 70k more games. Statistically insignificant? Fish on a heater? Ooops...just noticed you reset your stats so this might not be true....then again aside from being a SNG/MTT fish I think Juicy used to do well at 3/6 cash so maybe it's about right.