I don't think you understand the reasons why raising the flop is good. It's not really about your hot-and-cold equity in the hand, it's about protecting whatever equity you do have.

You're going to feel pretty dumb about not raising the flop when the flush when a diamond DOES hit and someone in the field wins with a 7-high flush. Or when two low cards come and you get quartered by someone in the field with nothing by an emergency low.

If you are in a game
Where people are folding flush draws on the flop. Find a new game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

here ya go, def not perfect or anything but they give you a pretty good idea how it would look without being too results-oriented hopefully

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: AQT

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
[T-K][T-A]	20.12%	80,833	93,100	67,897	8,097	2,815
Ah3d4d5c	32.33%	134,172	147,453	523	131,945	14,525
KhJs9c3h	33.36%	116,781	214,913	79,992	0	0
50%	14.19%	54,375	63,617	18,664	32,442	12,922

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: AQT

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
[T-K][T-A]	21.64%	77,899	92,556	78,184	24,634	3,117
25%	19.99%	74,104	82,182	24,281	66,304	6,172
KhJs9c3h	38.76%	132,685	243,396	104,789	0	0
40%	19.62%	65,994	74,427	21,857	82,348	6,587

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: AQT

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
[T-K][T-A]	20.64%	73,085	86,090	79,165	22,040	2,925
Ac3d	23.73%	93,209	105,949	16,023	79,343	6,272
KhJs9c3h	38.27%	131,331	242,767	100,073	0	0
40%	17.35%	54,743	62,801	21,563	74,694	6,668

What does this mean in the simulation above?

[T-K][T-A]

Why would I find a new game when I am in one where people fold their live equity and give it to me? The best poker game is where you bet and everybody folds every time.

Things I want to happen when I flop a straight.
1) people fold their flush draws

Basically 2 hi cards. Any card T thru K and another card T thru A. Includes hands with TT, TJ, KK, AK, etc.

you have O/8 Low limit all wrong

You make so much money when people chase a 7 high flush, because we always have the A-high flush draw.

Yes this one hand you want everyone to fold flush draws, but in general, you want weak draws to call because when we have top set/nut flush draw, those people are the reason the games are good

Right, you want your opponents to call when you have their outs dominated but fold when they have a lot of live equity.

This might be an argument for flat calling the bet if you had the nut flush draw and top set. But that's not what you have in this hand.

In this hand, you want to do whatever you can to make trashy flush draw fold, and that means raising.

I think you are overvaluing a straight in Omaha H/L on a two flush board

Your hand isnt that good

5 star thread

That's what I would have guessed, except the player is supposed to have 4 cards, not 2.

I believe it assigns them two other random cards. Just like typing "A2" will give them a hand with at least one Ace, at least one Deuce, and any two other cards.

I think your hand clearly has positive equity over the field. In this circumstance, you either want to get maximum value by forcing opponents with negative equity to put the most money in the pot possible, or you want them to fold their equity to increase your own. Raising accomplishes both objectives.

So lets say you raise AcAs UTG in a 10 hands game (LHE), 8 to the flop, 16 sb

flop is 9h 8h 5d

BB bets, do you raise, or call?

Yes you have an equity advantage RIGHT NOW, but the turn card will change your equity so much.

If the turn is 7h, you are done.

Same thing with this hand, if a diamond hits the turn, or the board pairs, you are check/folding the turn.


I think the issue is you are vastly overstating the value of a straight on a flush draw board in O-8

You are not folding if you get the guy with the flush draw to fold.

You are looking at this as too black and white. When you flop a straight, you want every flush draw to fold, but if you get called by one flush draw then you definitely want to be called by any other flush draws too.

Nick isn't overstating the value of a straight. It's a vulnerable hand, but it is better than the opponent's hand, especially if played properly.

If you had A337 in this hand, with the seven high flush draw, would you rather your opponent with a straight made it two bets in front of you (with it possible for the original bettor to reraise when it gets back to him) or just called, allowing you to call for one bet and shut off the action?

Raising increases the equity of the player with the straight, calling increases the pot odds of the player with the baby flush and crappy low draw. Calling is a big mistake.

The situations are not that similar, but you should absolutely raise with AA in that spot. I think it's even more clear-cut than the OP's hand. And in a LHE game, you can't just immediately fold an overpair when a scare card comes in anyway.

You seem really obsessed with how "good" of a hand a straight is, and that this is all that should factor into your decisions. I've also studied up on the poker hand rankings. I know a straight loses to a flush or a full house. But I've also heard this referred to as "level zero" poker thinking, so there really must be more to the analysis.

You should be thinking about the range of hands your opponents likely have and how different parts of that range will respond to your actions. A lot of hands in the field are going to be very marginal in the eyes of the player holding them, but have enough equity to call a single flop bet. Raising puts these hands in a very difficult spot, while just calling gives them a much easier decision.

Think of it the other way....do you prefer to play against opponents who are transparently only raising with lock nut hands, and otherwise play super-passive, or do you prefer to play against opponents who raise aggressively with draws, marginal hands, and vulnerable made hands as well? You generally don't want to be the type of player you like to play against.

Nick is correct that it just includes any other 2 cards then. So TT2A as well as TTT2 and other hands that might not really be in his range. Like lotus said not perfect.

I hope you don't feel this way in PL/NL where they're usually calling without correct odds. That's where the profit comes from.

FYP

The best poker game is where you are always winning huge pots getting paid off extremely light in multiple spots every time you bet and players give you tons of free cards and never bluff. It's the easiest game in the world.

The only hard part is getting a hand to show them.

They might go home broke, but at least they don't go home curious.

That being said, I think what you suggest is a fairly close second. And it's so enjoyable just running the whole table over in a game where every steal works and every bluff gets through.

This is definitely nonsense.

Low is only possible 60% of the time by the river across all possible runouts. Also, on some occasions even on boards with low being possible, high only hands can still scoop the pot, particularly with flushes and full houses, if the opponent was counterfeited/double/triple counterfeited. This happens more in tight games and also when the game is shorthanded and people don't generally have strong starting hands. There are also times when you can make your opponent fold a low hand if it isn't strong enough to call a bet with (for example someone with a368 on a 75QJ3 board may fold A6 and bottom pair if they think your "low" is better).

High hands have excellent scoop potential. I'll concede they are speculative and hands with low potential get to see a lot more turns and rivers.

But when it comes with only one low card or no low cards on that flop and you're sitting there with 4 big cards, you're usually in a great spot against weak hands.

The only suckers playing these hands are the ones that don't know when to fold their hand postflop and put too much money in preflop trying to connect.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
AsAhKsKh	42.87%	170,151	338,499	6,271	0	0
10%	28.51%	71,455	122,576	12,676	110,315	111,463
10%	28.62%	72,348	123,443	12,700	110,299	111,463

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

138,238 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
[T-A][T-A][T-A][T-A]	22.67%	22,743	37,951	2,355	0	0
25%	19.43%	10,374	23,423	3,070	14,515	13,127
25%	19.38%	10,281	23,207	3,128	14,511	13,182
25%	19.24%	10,252	23,371	3,085	14,216	12,929
25%	19.28%	10,186	23,131	3,127	14,439	13,131

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation

7,286 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
[T-A][T-A][T-A][T-A]	20.33%	1,113	1,737	131	0	0
25%	15.63%	447	1,004	151	524	622
25%	15.94%	450	1,014	154	548	641
25%	16.15%	448	1,047	161	512	672
25%	16.03%	460	1,025	143	538	675
25%	15.92%	439	1,028	159	537	636

I value it at around 2:1.

Your post isn't that good

With the kill by raising the flop ...

Fact is with problem , being your starting hand is trash incarnate and worth ever cent you lost. You have no low and a 9, sorry no matter how high you are thinking that hand is bad and with out the gin flop you would never know how bad it is.
The mystery isnt how you should have played your hand but why the A3 Fh didnt bet onthe river if he didnt I dont see that mentioned,

This still makes no sense.