you should shut up this what you say to me and still no show up at o8.
keep it to nitting 9 max mtt's for you, o wait

Guys, please stop the banter here.

I think abarber's well is a better place for politics, economics and d.ick swinging.

Sounds like abarber got his big bink and doesn't care what the future of o8 is anymore really. Not much of what he said was even really in line with the long-term health of a poker economy and certainly not good for the game. Without winners and the proverbial moneymaker effect, poker becomes nothing more than a glorified slot machine or other casino game. And back comes the all of the undue negative stigma that poker has accumulated over the years, something people have worked really hard to dispel in recent years...mainly the artificial intelligence community lately. You really should look into the impact AI algorithms have on nearly all forms of industry, and the effects on the future are exponentially larger.

AI will be winning at pretty much all forms of NLHE within a decade, nl holdem HU was already almost lost as of a year ago. PL/NLO8 should last much longer and will be one of the few AI challenges remaining soon, so there will always be some solid future value for the game...unless poker itself dies out over the coming years due to legal, moral, business, or whatever other issue(s).

Pokerstars is doing a huge disservice to the game, their customers, and even their own future value by limiting game types to high variance formats only or by charging an inappropriate amount of rake for specific game types. But to their credit, it's tough times for them unless they can get a worldwide player pool again. Welcome to what the ring-fenced player pools have been dealing with for years now, you might wanna diversify across a few sites just to be safe. At least pokerstars is being pretty tame about it, I bet if they started banning long-term winners there would be so much crying. Be thankful for what you still got, but you better have a damn good backup plan worked out...at least have a small BR on another site.

Ok I will..

4k for whoever makes the most profit in mtts on stars till end of year

or an amount u want.

pls don't say play cash as play mtts and I am not switching to cash unless u wanna play 8 game then I will xfer everything I have to play u.

GL large mouth

i like 6 max btw but on weekends playin all Omaha 6 max is too much tbh

i'd like a mix of 9 and 6

also...y do u have to be such a dick about everything...u cant be ike this irl surely

also any mtt reg would laugh when u say i'm a nit

I still see no one trying to think about WHY Stars would do this if it's bad for the company...

make it 25k with good escrow and i am in. (i am not joking)
But again you never put your money where your mouth is, we both know you can not even stand in my shadow not in cash, not in mtt.

because the guy who made schedula did it in 1 day there guessing and not capable on this point to see what good for them. but they dont do everything wrong reentrie very good for stars also 6 max.

Because it probably isn't bad. I haven't seen a single change since Amaya took over that hasn't emphasised profitability over player experience. No change shocks me these days.

The problem is obviously their monopoly, the loan debts they took on, coupled with the shareholder angle - this is only going to go one way. It slightly surprises me that people still believe we can change these fundamentals or that Stars gives a **** about anything players say anymore. They don't. This is not the Pokerstars we came to know and love.

We desperately need a shock to the market but there is nothing on the horizon.

Finally! I totally agree.

There is a big chance it's because the new tournament manager is a former Holdem only player and has no idea / doesn't care about mixed games.


Mixed games MTTs might be 'bad' for the company because they are not as popular and thus have lower variance.
But it's not like they are responsible for a lot of money being taken out of the system, simply because total prizes aren't very high.

Removing mixed games is bad for the company because removing variety also hurts their most popular games. I do my shopping in the grocery store which has my favourite shaving cream. Chances are I pick up some milk and bread there too.


Nice brag. But even if you are shouting, no, you don't love it. Otherwise you would contribute help growing the games instead of admiring Amayas extremely short sighted business plan to pay off their debts while effectively shooting their own leg.

Sometimes it's worth to put up a fight. You might lose a battle or even the war. We had the $215s removed in the past and with the help of us all we got them back. Chances are we'll do it again

Now would you please continue to derail your own well with politics, because you add nothing to this thread.

Disagreement with you doesn't mean I add nothing. I'm making the case for why they were eliminated. You made the case for why players should fight back. This is how discourse works between adults. If there is precedent, I think you make a really good argument for resisting this change.

The problem with your argument is that you are just talking out of your ass without any real knowledge of the situation. When is the last time you played poker on pokerstars?

Not everything is a conspiracy. The TD spent months putting together the new holdem mtt schedule and spent about an hour putting together the non holdem mtt schedule shortly before the new schedule was to be launched. Mixed game mtts don't rake as much as holdem mtts so the TD(an ex holdem mtt player) doesn't really give a **** about them so we have to fight for everything we can get. What else would you expect us to do? Btw not everyone who wants weekend O8 mtts is a lol "O8 pro" The 55 plo8 got over 2x the gtd today. Of the 150 players who played it how many of them do you think were O8 pros?

You have to be my least favorite poster. You just come off as a guy who thinks hes an expert on everything...painful to read

I haven't seen him on US-facing sites either, unless he's just playing lo8 cash or sticking to bovada only. Tbh I'm kinda curious though how he would handle WPN ODs on a reg-heavy day, let alone a pstars regfest hyper sng grind.

Why risk your own money when you can stream it and use sponsor money, look at the GPL lol. They're basically freerolling 6max nlhe sngs, it must be nice. Dunno if it will work out, but respect to the holdem guys for thinking outside the box. They even get to play without any location restrictions

Juicy et al.. Barber is talking about the free market economics angle of the situation. Him not playing on Stars doesn't mean his point isn't relevant. Luke may be clueless in many people's eyes but there is no way he is acting against the profitability of Stars because that woukd be against his own self interest in retaining his job. He has focused his efforts on Holdem because it is the most popular game that makes them the $. It's not at all illogical for him to focus on NLHE.

The depressing thing is, however logical or justified the argument against them is, they just don't give a **** if it makes them less money.

lol so wrong,
i have played so much against people who wanne win money from me but still they do the most stupid stuff.
Abarber have learned some theory on university about economics, good for him. he dont have single clue about stars the players who are playing there and why they are playing there. his opion has close to no value

I am glad you have only cherry picked one part of my argument to disagree with in your unintelligible ramblings. I feel blessed.

I guess you agree with the part where I stated Stars have a monopoly, massive debts to service and shareholders to pay dividends to? The last two points being the critical difference between Amaya and when the Scheinbergs owned Stars. As a result, they don't give a **** about player opinions in a game that probably makes up 0.001% (if that) of their total revenue stream. As evidence of this, I understand that Luke asked the opinion of several regs on the changes and then just ignored everything they said and did the schedule in a day.

But most importantly on your belief that the changes will make less money. The overall shift to faster structured tournies, reduced guarantees and extra re-entries that will be raked (fish just click rebuy), mean their overall hourly will increase. Are you quite sure these changes mean they will make less money?

Someone far more experienced than I am with MTTs has already highlighted this point to you:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=83

Luke also has access to cold hard data that you and I don't. I am pretty confident that he isn't making changes (or stupid stuff as you put it) that will lose them money - but somehow you know more than Luke who has more info?

You (and alot of the HS regs) seem to be confusing your own individual profitability with that of which makes Pokerstars the most money. They are completely different objectives and are not aligned.

wtf are you talking about? did not say they make less money then before changes. ofcourse they making more short term with reentrie and stuff but if luke would understand the ecosystem better they could make more short term and long term. And funny thing why it annoys me is that it would be also very good for o8 players if they would understand it.

Ofcourse i know more then Luke about the mid highstakes o8 community and games that running, ofcourse i know more witch players are probabaly the losing players in those. are you even kidding me here?

people like you and barbera really can not think in right way i will explain it once again because it looks like when i say something you dont understand you just ignore it.

Let say we have ecosystem with just 1 game - holdem we all understand that winning players who win deposited money are bad for stars and the ecosystem right?

let say we add 9 other (less populair games) can you understand that it would be AMAZING for stars if those winning holdem players are also going to play some of those smaller games where they suck at and be the losing players? Do you still follow it that there "winning holdem money" is now just kind of the same as deposited money?

I think you still do not get it i will explain it with myself. i am big $ winner in o8 but if you look to my other games i have dropped (and stars has raked) a lot in other games.
For example plo just before i stars crushing did drop like 40k in zoom 0.5/1 over more then 500k hands and was even after rakeback maybe losing. (i played with money i won before in holdem mtt btw)
then i have dropped liftime some few k in 8 games also some K in stud and stud hi/lo. And pretty good change i have been -ev in 100$ spins etc etc.

Ofcourse you think i am worse and being stupid i can tell you that i think i am one of smarter pro and did less stupid stuff like this then other winning players.
Now look at highstakes o8 mtt on stars i do see a lot of players who are big crushers on stars in other games just playing then for "fun" (and probabaly losing = deposting) that why o8 games are great for o8 community but also for stars. The sad part is that stars does not yet understand this that they need to push this kind of toernement more and also the hyper format because they are really full of those holdem winners who just like to puhs fold and have no clue what they doing.

summary: stars can suck up the depositer money once but when they can make decision where $ winning players are going to make losing bets (for example playing game they dont master) that when really profit can come from short term and longterm.

streitboy you can link you hero genious Luke to this thread maybe it will open his eyes, he can thank me later if he really going to study the date very indept.

This scoop we will see again i am right those 2k o8 toernements will be full of players who made money in poker in the past of in other format. If you just do some easy calculations see how much depositer money will be lost in toernement - rake you will see that there HAVE TO a lot of people losing in these MTT who are pro poker players or at least big winners in poker.

But again you are not open minded enough to really see my point and probably luke will not see it too.

By implication you did - whether you believe so or not. See below.



Your microcosm is far smaller than the macrocosm. Again, you're focusing on mid to high stakes as though that is the primary issue to them. I have already explained it is not.

Agreed.

The winning players withdraw money as we agreed. Who is winning your money in your worse games? You're just going to lose it at a slower rate than the fish in those games so they're going to make more rake but in the end the money will still be withdrawn by the winning player.

NLHE fish deposits - NLHE Shark gets deposit- Plays non holdem game- Loses to 08 shark - 08 shark withdraws.

Their changes will mean they just get this extra rake from the pro playing a -ev game much quicker.

08 is a more complex game than holdem and as you imply need to make it fun. If you slow the game down and not make it push fold they won't play it (and therefore Stars won't get the extra rake). You would kill a holdem fish in a standard structure tourney and therefore they wouldn't play it.

The ecosystem still depends on the new fish coming in and depositing, or the existing fish depositing more.

Amaya gambled on the US properly coming back in to provide them with the fish. That's not happening as quickly or as significantly as they probably planned in their business model. As such, they have to make the money from the existing (and probably dwindling) player pool and everybody is getting raped.

nope o8 regs drop somewhere else a part of it at some point the deposted money making circles (and get raked a lot). That what i explain all time but you just can not understand it.
if you can get 1k toernement running as site with 40 people 38 guys who never will deposited money from those 40 then you are really stupid not let toernement run like that.
But you just can not get it i guess