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Old 03-19-2017, 09:45 PM   #1
Jon_locke
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BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

THtought this was a pretty interesting spot given how short cutoff is and almost certainty they will fire all low draws on turn but can easily be convinced otherwise.

100-200 (limit) big O. Cutoff opens and has only $350 left heading to flop, sb calls and I call big blind QQ568 with some clubs.

Flop is Kc 4h 4s and it checks through.
Turn is 3c checked to cutoff who bets sb calls and I check raise ( cutoff calls all in and sb calls)

River is Jc and it goes check check
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:12 PM   #2
Your Mom
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

Qc?
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:25 AM   #3
Ray Zee
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

i think i would have bet on 4th.

i dont like the check raise with the aggressor behind you.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:14 AM   #4
Jon_locke
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

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Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
i think i would have bet on 4th.

i dont like the check raise with the aggressor behind you.
Normally I agree but in this case aggressor only has 1.5 bets left and he can't have AK, AA or trips given his stack size and flop check.... so our QQ is always good vs him and at least our draws are good blocked to his draws that scoop us. He's going to bet all combo low draws on this turn always so also gives us a chance to see if third player was slow playing as wel. But I imagine the best he can do is Kx when he doesn't lead turn and hopefully he's sharing outs with other fuy
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:12 AM   #5
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

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Originally Posted by Jon_locke View Post
Normally I agree but in this case aggressor only has 1.5 bets left and he can't have AK, AA or trips given his stack size and flop check...
I don't usually comment on limit hands, because I don't play it. However, I have some comments to your assumption in the quoted part. Don't you think it's a really good spot for him to check some of the mentioned hands? I guess AK23x with 2x bdfd is the best "slow play" in his range, maybe AA with no deuce is the worst because he doesn't block a king and can get action from a king and needs protection against bd low. I do not know if players play like that, but at least to me it makes a lot of sense given his stack size (=he can get it in on a later street).
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:16 AM   #6
zoogenhiem
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

Is limit big O really a fun game? You take one of the biggest action games and then you limit it. I'm not one of those guys who says no limit or bust, I enjoy limit games including FLO8, but limit 5 card omaha games sound...dubious. Although I suppose getting to chase all your draws so freely could be enjoyable, and you could probably extract a good edge from not autochasing your worse draws incorrectly where the bad players chase all draws.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:24 PM   #7
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

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Originally Posted by Jon_locke View Post
Normally I agree but in this case aggressor only has 1.5 bets left and he can't have AK, AA or trips given his stack size and flop check.... so our QQ is always good vs him and at least our draws are good blocked to his draws that scoop us. He's going to bet all combo low draws on this turn always so also gives us a chance to see if third player was slow playing as wel. But I imagine the best he can do is Kx when he doesn't lead turn and hopefully he's sharing outs with other fuy
Maybe this makes me a bad limit player, but in villain's situation I check all of those hands (pretty much checking 100% of the time really) so agree with amok. What's the advantage to betting i/o checking flop for villain with AA/Kx/4x and 1.5 bets left?
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:14 PM   #8
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

Bet/fold the river, hu this is too strong not to go for value given villains weak line

Turn raise is very optimistic
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:58 PM   #9
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

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Originally Posted by zoogenhiem View Post
Is limit big O really a fun game? You take one of the biggest action games and then you limit it. I'm not one of those guys who says no limit or bust, I enjoy limit games including FLO8, but limit 5 card omaha games sound...dubious. Although I suppose getting to chase all your draws so freely could be enjoyable, and you could probably extract a good edge from not autochasing your worse draws incorrectly where the bad players chase all draws.
they've introduced in the game i play and i think it is a terrible game.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:05 PM   #10
Jon_locke
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

It's either terrible or the greatest game ever, prob closest to terrible for vegas games
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:49 AM   #11
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

This is not a hand or spot that you want to check-raise imo. With the SB in, Just bet, or check-call.
SB can still reasonably have a King.
As played, I would bet river after SB checks. (Assuming it's Q high clubs, which you didn't answer before. Can check 8 high.)
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:07 PM   #12
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Re: BigO almost top pair and some crappy draws

i don't play limit big o, but this seems like a pretty awful hand.

fold pre? maybe its different in limit games, but this just seems like trouble.

we pick up a draw on the turn, but the board is paired and if we complete our draw we are chopping with a better low anyway, best case scenario. seems like our only clean out is one of the 2 queens left, but even so that isn't to the nuts.
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