Fairly loose game but folded to me in the cutoff with AAJ8, 3 clubs. Button looks uninterested. I raise?, only BB calls.

Flop KT6 with 2 diamonds. BB donks, I call?
Turn 6 BB bets, I call?

If it matters, villain is a nondescript middle-aged white guy (as am I). Just got to table, no reads on him.

Hmmm. Kinda normal for AA, i would call here and river also.

I would raise the donk also.

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Everybody says live players are different than online, i play online and small stakes.


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I could go either way with raising or folding the flop. If raising, I'm hoping BB slows down and checks turn, as I probably miss most turns. Folding is reserved for players where I have enough history to know they're only betting a monster wrap or two pair+.

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Raise turn, flop raise is fairly thin- if we do raise flop it should often be with the intention of checking back turn

Blank 6 is among the best possible turn cards for us, if villain puts in a 3! We are normally cooked

I think you should raise the turn. Preflop raise and flop call are fine.

For you guys who want to raise either flop or turn, what kind of hand are you putting villain on?

On the turn my opponents would usually have Ax diamonds or KT. Yeah my idea to raise flop is to rep one of these for myself, and bluff scary turn. I guess the raises are for value against all the hands you are ahead of on the turn versus the fewer hands you are behind. And, you have two outs against those, and if he has Ax diamonds it is unlikely he has a set to go with it.


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Ak, kt, kqxx, diamond flush draw and other combo draws

That is not to say villains will not lead 2pair, sets or even some 6xxx with nut diamond draw for instance

But 2pairs and sets will be check-raised somewhat often from balanced villains, even waiting for safe turns, the weaker hands described first should be led more often since they benefit more from fe, that is why raising this turn is a strong play, moreover, aaxx is not even one of the stronger hands in our turn-raising range, we should have lots of strong hands here including quads.. we should not have too many bluffs/semi-bluffs though we could try to turn a hand like atxx into a bluff if we are confident we are reading villain correctly


Another reason not to raise the flop is villain will frequently turn a better low draw than us, so we will generally not to want to play our hand over-agressively, villain should have a better idea of his relative hand strength than hero

Wow i am learning a lot thanks! My question is, if the turn is a rando low card are we done with the hand, having just called the donk bet on flop?

If we raise flop villian might check the low turn.

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I'm a nondescript middle-aged white guy who plays at these stakes. Let's say I'm the BB in this scenario. When you raise pre, I imagine that AA is a big part of your range. I'm also suspicious that you might be attempting to steal the blinds with a two-way hand like AK46.

If I flopped a set, I would go for a check-raise, expecting you to C-bet. But if I flopped any two-pair hand, or one pair plus (the plus being either a flush draw or any kind of straight draw), I would lead out.

With KT, I would still bet the turn (as I'm ahead of your AK holdings) but would probably check-call a lot of rivers when I don't improve. Obviously, with K6 or T6, I'm continuing to bet the turn. With AK plus (the plus being a flush draw and/or a straight draw), I'm continuing to bet the turn but would probably check-call a lot of rivers when I don't improve.

With a hand that doesn't have much showdown value if I don't get there, something like AQJT with or without diamonds, I might bet all three streets in the hope that I can get you to fold. (I've noticed that I often have to bet all three streets to get a bluff through in this game.)

So you're in a tough spot. You might be ahead, but I might make a straight or flush on the river. And if you're behind, you're drawing very thin.

If I were in your spot, I would probably call the turn with the intention of reevaluating on the river. If a blank comes and the BB checks, you're most likely in good shape and might be able to bet for value. If a blank comes and the BB bets, well, you have a bluff catcher at that point. With no reads and no history with this player, I would probably call. If a diamond comes and the BB continues to bet, I would fold. If a King or Ten comes and the BB continues to bet, I would probably fold. If another 6 comes and the BB continues to bet, I don't know what I would do.

This is pretty standard for decent play that I encounter. Once the 6 hits the turn, im not folding AA, I would expect to have to call turn and river. Extracting value on blank river card might be raise and fold to 3b though.


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I think villain's most likely holdings are a K with two other broadway cards or a K with nut diamonds. You're not really ahead of these hands on the flop, but you're well ahead on turn. And raising the turn makes it possible that the villain will check the river even if he makes a straight or a flush, and you can just check back.

I think a lot of villains would play a flopped set a little slower. And I don't think villain would bet out the flop with a naked 6. He could have a 6 with nut diamonds or T6, but these are going to amount to a relatively small number of combinations relative to the number of combos you beat.

I was in this sorta similar scenario today and used Monikrazy's line, raised turn (maybe fold to 3b) and had a very competent opponent buried alive, till he made rando low to split.


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River was an offsuit K and he checked...

Check back, sigh....


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Its not that bad when he checks, plenty of missed draws, standard checkback unless he will frequently table a 6 sigh and muck faceup to a bet

im a desript middle aged white guy. there is nothing non- about me, and i call the turn and raise most rivers

Is "generic middle aged white guy" a pejorative term? We are not snowflakes, just a little gray around the edges.


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I like raise flop chk turn sometimes. If I call flop, then call the turn, raise most rivers is prob better than raise turn. You're ahead on the turn but the hands that will call your raise on the turn will lead the river if you just call. You'll get more from draws. TVB river and see ATxx or QJTx more than 6xxx

the 6 is a great value card for you. it gives you a lock on the hand most of the time and allows you to make 1 more bet, which will usually be otr. you are WAWB tho, so raising turn is suboptimal.

the k is terrible and kills your action while giving you the worst hand a fair amt. nothing worse is calling so chk

had another low card come on turn that didnt complete the flush then raise any bet ott. you have both high and low draws,to charge

bet/fold all rivers but the k imo if he checks but dont bet the k

When I am in the other chair, as villain defending BB, KT23 with flush blockers is a normal sort of hand I will have, with which to donk on the flop. There are even stronger hands in my range on the turn, some maybe like K623xx ect.
If I donk flop and get called, a paired turn that does not fill me up is the only thing that can slow me down. If a random low card comes instead of the paired turn, I am still betting the top two pair, and would likely 3b a raise on the turn. From villains chair, a random low card puts more more draws in the hero range that need to be charged rent to see river, or villain might have any two low cards without an 8 for a better low draw.

From the ranges I have tested, a random low turn card keeps whoever is WAWB in the same position on the turn as the flop, but now it will be harder to figure out who is drawing versus who is ahead.

When I am this villain, I put hero on the fd, a straight draw, a low draw, plus maybe AA. My top two are only behind a set, and I may have outs to half or all the pot against that.

So I disagree, as hero, and would probably call a low turn card and fold if river did not improve me, at all. (?!?)


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are you assigning every possible hand combo to an LP raise and defend.

its possible but extremely unlikely to have all positions on this board. sure v could have A2ddKT but more often than not he is drawing and his value range should be top pair plus bd low. just so hard to have the board covered here. QTA3 would be around the center of his valie range

when we flop like this our goal is to extract exactly 2 big bets out of villian. we almost always lose when a 3rd bet goes in and most people will only make 1. we are way ahead of the game when we extract 2, so raise every turn that is not a diamond or pairs the board

domt forget that we also have a BD low and will be good for low sometimes on 2s or 3s that counterfiet his bd low

I disagree that raising the turn is bad because you are WA/WB. You normally don't want go bet/raise in such spots because your opponent will correctly fold when you are WA. But here so much of his range has enough perceived equity that he will either need to continue or will fold incorrectly getting like 7:1. Raising the turn protects your equity here. I think it also makes your river decision easier.

Wow, you guys are all way more optimistic about the hand than I was. I did think he could have the flush draw or just a K plus some kind of draw, but felt I was more likely way behind and kind of wanted to just fold both flop and turn.

Villain ended up having T6 for a full house. Not sure why he checked river as the only thing I could have had to overtake him would be KT, and the river made it more likely for me to call with AK. I don't remember his other two cards, but I don't think he had a big draw like a flush draw or wrap. Can't recall if he had a backdoor low.