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50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation 50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation

06-29-2017 , 03:45 AM
200/400 mixed game with a few big bet games in the mix. Pot limit Big O is played 50/100 blinds with a dead $150 in the middle and a 4k cap.

7 handed game. Russian that seems very solid so far opens hijack to 300, solid east coast pro flats button, I call small blind with A268J. Effective pot is $1000 (actual pot $1150). There is $3700 remaining in the cap.

Flop: T65

I check, hijack cbets pot for $1000, button folds, what do I do?

I have played a bit of of 4, 5, and 6 card PLO8, but the majority of that was in fairly deep stacked uncapped games and a very long time ago in very soft games. My 40bb cap experience is all in 4 card where I would stuff A26x with two backdoors without a second thought. I have some experience with pot limit Big O recently but it is in much smaller games with much more passive players and generally at least 80bb effective.
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 04:59 AM
So I guess it's between calling and shoving, and there isn't a big difference. If you flat, what turns are you planning to fold on? Red K/Q are probably the worst, but still... I'd just getin flop.

Note that in 5-card your equity is actually better than in 4-card when facing something like AA2xx or AKK2x. (on T65r, A268 with 2bdfd vs random AA2x is 39-61, while the same in 5-card A268Jds vs AA2xx is almost 44-56).
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 07:14 AM
Just stuff it, with the cap its not clear we can fold any turns - maybe a red 2 or t
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Just stuff it, with the cap its not clear we can fold any turns - maybe a red 2 or t
Yeh forgot about A or 2, but disagree with a T, it's simply a blank.
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 02:49 PM
Would you consider this a fairly realistic range for villain? I know some combinations in there will be too weak and folded before the flop. I don't know if I should be expecting players to hold a lot of KK32* type combos or with what frequency I should expect them to just be potting A2 combos other than the ones listed.

A23**, A24**, A26**, A25**, A2T**, A278*, A2JJ*, A2QQ*, A2KK*, A3JJ*, A3QQ*, A3KK*, A34**, AA3**, AA2**, A3T**, A357*, A367*, A379*, A378*, AA47*

I was shocked to see that I have 52% equity against that range, so I feel like I must have made the range too weak but I don't know how to do top X% of a specific combination in a range in ProPokerTools, if it's even possible. And I can't imagine that removing those combos from the range would actually shift my equity to something that makes my decision on the flop something other than a jam. I honestly feel like I must have done something wrong or the range is just wildly unrealistic because I don't know how 52% vs a reasonable get it in range can be correct. I looked at a lot of hand vs hand spots and it seemed relatively easy for me to have around 40%, few spots where I have over 52% and I was generally looking at 45-48%.

Last edited by Sean Snyder; 06-29-2017 at 03:07 PM.
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 07:47 PM
If I had taken 5 minutes to put anything resembling a reasonable range into PPT, this thread definitely would not have been necessary. It is a very clear jam, I thought it was actually close when I played the hand.
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder

A23**, A24**, A26**, A25**, A2T**, A278*, A2JJ*, A2QQ*, A2KK*, A3JJ*, A3QQ*, A3KK*, A34**, AA3**, AA2**, A3T**, A357*, A367*, A379*, A378*, AA47*

I was shocked to see that I have 52% equity against that range,
where the equity comes from.
arrived at by simulation using the range specified above (randomized 600,000 trials so values are approximate)

handtype @shwdn wins high scoop split 75/25 split 50/50 split 25/75equity
straightflush 0 - - - - -
quads .11% .11% - - - .11
fullhouse 3.24% 1.61% .57% 1.06% - 2.57
flush 7.37% 4.04% 2.49% .83% - 6.32
straight 6.05% 4.3% 1.57% 2.73% - 6.84
trips 4.84% 4.01% .63% 3.38% - 6.17
two pair 20.84% 10.06% 6.05% 4.73% - 16.96
pair 1.61% .61% .31% .29% - 0.99
wins low not high 0% - - 15.9% - 7.95
ties low not high 0% - - - 18.32% 4.58
totals 44.06% 24.74% 11.62% 28.92% 18.32% 52.49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder
so I feel like I must have made the range too weak but I don't know how to do top X% of a specific combination in a range in ProPokerTools, if it's even possible.
you can use the ":" which means "and" or the "!" which means "not".
you will also most likely need to use parenthesis for grouping.

some examples

your above range but only those that also ('and') fall within the ppt ranking top 20%
20% : (A23**, A24**, A26**, A25**, A2T**, A278*, A2JJ*, A2QQ*, A2KK*, A3JJ*, A3QQ*, A3KK*, A34**, AA3**, AA2**, A3T**, A357*, A367*, A379*, A378*, AA47*)

or
25% : (A23**, A24**, A26**, A25**, A2T**, A278*, A2JJ*, A2QQ*, A2KK*, A3JJ*, A3QQ*, A3KK*, A34**, AA3**, AA2**), 15% : (A3T**, A357*, A367*, A379*, A378*, AA47*)

your above range but only those that have flopped a pair or contain a pocket pair JJ+

(A23**, A24**, A26**, A25**, A2T**, A278*, A2JJ*, A2QQ*, A2KK*, A3JJ*, A3QQ*, A3KK*, A34**, AA3**, AA2**), 15% : (A3T**, A357*, A367*, A379*, A378*, AA47*) : (T,6,5,aa,[kk-jj])

i think of the 'and' making the intersection of sets

the "!" on the other hand excludes

so if we want to exclude all hands with a 9 and all hands outside the top 35% ppt ranking

(A23**, A24**, A26**, A25**, A2T**, A278*, A2JJ*, A2QQ*, A2KK*, A3JJ*, A3QQ*, A3KK*, A34**, AA3**, AA2**,A3T**, A357*, A367*, A379*, A378*, AA47*)!(9,35%)
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote
06-29-2017 , 11:05 PM
i placed some incorrect values into the table in the above post

***this version of the table is correct***
(it checks both horizontally and vertically)


handtype @shwdn wins high scoop split 75/25 split 50/50 split 25/75equity
straightflush 0 - - - - -
quads .11% .11% - - - .11
fullhouse 3.24% 1.61% .57% 1.06% - 2.57
flush 7.37% 4.04% 2.49% .83% - 6.32
straight 6.05% 4.3% 1.75% 0% - 5.61
trips 4.84% 4.01% .84% 0% - 4.64
two pair 20.84% 10.06% 6.05% 4.73% - 16.96
pair 1.61% .61% 1.0% 0% - 1.36
ties high wins low 0% - .45% - - 0.34
ties high not low 0% - - - 4.21% 1.05
ties high and low 0% - - 1.81 - 0.91
wins low not high 0% - - 15.5% - 7.75
ties low not high 0% - - - 16.47% 4.12
totals 44.06% 24.74% 13.1% 22.02% 20.68% 51.74


sorry. my query includes more values then i've included in the table and in making the table i used some incorrect values, i noticed some inconsistencies after looking away, which i should have done prior to posting.
the new values lead me to conclude the table was incomplete hence the added rows.

Last edited by ngFTW; 06-29-2017 at 11:10 PM. Reason: if NISS wants to cut the original table from the previous post and paste this table into that post and delete this post entir
50/100 pot limit Big O, a very basic situation Quote

      
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