Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Two Plus Two Magazine Forum Articles and features about poker and gambling in general.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2008, 06:03 AM   #51
patobl
stranger
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by valenvan View Post
The magazine articles posted online deserve a longer shelf life. Three months is not enough time.

valenvan
You can read the article at

http://www.poker.se/artiklar/1570/po...d-for-you.html

patobl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2008, 02:42 PM   #52
whackyone
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 95
Re: Poker is Good for You

Hold the presses! Are you kidding me? I read the article, and agree with much of it's content, BUT, I think it leaves out an important, not-so-glamorous aspect of the game, and that is, poker is a game in which smart players simply take advantage of lesser ones, so how 'bout we call a spade a spade.

Poker, sadly, has been the ruination of many who are too weak to admit, or too ill-equipped to know that they're in too deep. Many have lost life savings, businesses, marriages, and a few have even commited suicide. Where's the beauty in that again?

I have been a professional poker player for many years. I love the game and all of it's intricacies, but I never kid myself as to where the bulk of my profit comes from; it comes from lesser-skilled players than me, and those sad souls with varying degrees of gambling addiction. I'm not proud of it, but I like the game - and the money - too much to quit. I'm weak too.

If all of us were confined to playing against people of equal (or even near-equal) skill level, the house would be the only winner, and all good players know that, whether they want to admit it or not.

Poker is simply and plainly, a predatory endeavor, as Mason Malmuth pointed out long ago (not that he had to). It is strictly self-serving, is of no benefit to society whatsoever (as other professions are), and is really no different than sharks roaming the seas in search of smaller prey. There's no need for the shark to pat himself on the back after he has fed himself; the result couldn't have been any other way.

Last edited by whackyone; 10-11-2008 at 03:03 PM.
whackyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2008, 09:03 PM   #53
Kadabra
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 174
Re: Poker is Good for You

where can i find this article?
Kadabra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2008, 12:57 PM   #54
miserablee
old hand
 
miserablee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,911
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by whackyone View Post
Hold the presses! Are you kidding me? I read the article, and agree with much of it's content, BUT, I think it leaves out an important, not-so-glamorous aspect of the game, and that is, poker is a game in which smart players simply take advantage of lesser ones, so how 'bout we call a spade a spade.
...

If all of us were confined to playing against people of equal (or even near-equal) skill level, the house would be the only winner, and all good players know that, whether they want to admit it or not.
I think you're missing the bigger picture. In any game of skill, ranging from chess to poker to golf to football to hockey, superior players take advantage of lesser ones. In my estimation, poker is currently separated in the majority's view from other forms of sport that are played for money because it's much easier to see that if Player A wins X amount from a given table, players B, C, D, etc. either win less or lose money. Just because the bones of poker are exposed and players that are either gaining or losing money to/from each other are face to face (or screenname to screenname) doesn't in actuality make it any different than any other business. The strong prey on the weak. That is life.

EX: If Tiger Woods or Roger Federer didn't exist, the next tier of players in golf or tennis respectively could foreseeably have made more money. It's much the same in business. Remove the top tier of management personnel. Someone would logically have to fill the empty positions, and it would most likely it would be the next tier down in terms of capability.

The point of the article is that poker offers a fairly bull**** free environment - that is to say, somewhat absent of politics and other real life concerns - in which to learn skills that apply to being successful in other areas of life because those other areas are much closer to poker than most realize or admit.

With regards to calling a spade a spade, I would argue poker does just that. From an ethical standpoint, is it right when a business is choosing between two candidates for a position that offers a large boost in earning and chooses the less capable candidate because that candidate's father is buddy buddy with the ceo? Probably not. Does it happen? Yes. At a poker table all such inequities are removed from the equation. All players know that the money they put in front of them is going to grow or shrink based on the quality of their decisions, and if they don't should not be sitting down to play. I wouldn't sink money into a business I knew nothing about, poker is no different.

Cliffnotes: Poker is ethical, good article, and preying on the weak is life, not just poker.

Last edited by miserablee; 11-17-2008 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Additional thought.
miserablee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 05:47 AM   #55
smilexiaoguai
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: qingdao
Posts: 2
Re: Poker is Good for You

It is really a good article...I totally agree with author's opinion...
smilexiaoguai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 05:58 AM   #56
eunice102
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1
Re: Poker is Good for You

I think it is good article, I think poker game is bennifit to everyone
eunice102 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 05:56 PM   #57
MBouzy
grinder
 
MBouzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 685
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyExperiment View Post
I think that i'd agree that poker is a game of skill and not just "gambling," but calling it a sport is a little bit of a stretch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerafterlife View Post
chess is sport, right?
I don't consider anything that an old man can beat me at as a sport. Another example: golf ... hobby? yes. Sport? No.
MBouzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2009, 10:54 PM   #58
Buzz
Gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 17,970
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by MBouzy View Post
I don't consider anything that an old man can beat me at as a sport. Another example: golf ... hobby? yes. Sport? No.
I think of a "sport" as a game or contest involving skill and physical exertion.

Without the physical exertion, "sport" seems a stretch to me too. Golf doesn't involve much physical exertion - but it does involve some physical exertion. Therefore golf seems a "sport."

Where do we draw the line though? Is pool a sport? It seemed to not require physical exertion when I was younger, but now I get tired standing and after a while my nine ball or eight ball game deteriorates, to say nothing of straight pool.

And I find the stress involved in playing a poker tournament physically exhausting after a few hours of play.

Still, is poker a sport?? I'd say that's a real stretch.

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 10:34 AM   #59
pokersharks
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4
Re: Poker is Good for You

I like to play online poker especially full tilt.
pokersharks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:01 PM   #60
quirkasaurus
old hand
 
quirkasaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,701
Re: Poker is Good for You

seriously. if you call poker "gambling" --- what's the stock market?
anyone else lose half the value of their investments this past year?
at least i'm "up" in poker...
quirkasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 12:30 PM   #61
guvnorg
grinder
 
guvnorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 5th Street, River City, UK
Posts: 459
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
I think of a "sport" as a game or contest involving skill and physical exertion.

Without the physical exertion, "sport" seems a stretch to me too. Golf doesn't involve much physical exertion - but it does involve some physical exertion. Therefore golf seems a "sport."

Where do we draw the line though? Is pool a sport? It seemed to not require physical exertion when I was younger, but now I get tired standing and after a while my nine ball or eight ball game deteriorates, to say nothing of straight pool.

And I find the stress involved in playing a poker tournament physically exhausting after a few hours of play.

Still, is poker a sport?? I'd say that's a real stretch.

Buzz
slightly off topic, but really? hitting a ball 300+ yards doesn't involve much physical exertion? Tiger benches 80+ kg, how many professional athletes can do that? (a lot obviously, but by no means all)

FWIW poker can't be called a sport IMO

anyway, I can't see the link to the original article, has it been removed?
guvnorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 02:01 PM   #62
ASCERO
grinder
 
ASCERO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Under the Bridge!!!!!
Posts: 407
Re: Poker is Good for You

Its a great article with a lot of true, certainly poker has made me a better person....but maybe theres a little exaggeration on how much things you can learn, and then use it to real life. I can┤t think of poker like a sport, Its a game and thats all, you need some skills (Impressive Skills BTW) but not physical effort....

Heres the article on a PDF: PokerIsGoodForYou
ASCERO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 03:15 PM   #63
funkyj
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
funkyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: working without a 27b/6
Posts: 6,414
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmws View Post
What a good essay! I hadn't read that before. Dugg!

I think it is a bit long for non-poker players but all points are well argued.

One attribute of poker not mentioned was bankroll management. BR management has obvious analogs in real life.
funkyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2009, 03:39 PM   #64
funkyj
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
funkyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: working without a 27b/6
Posts: 6,414
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by whackyone View Post
Poker, sadly, has been the ruination of many who are too weak to admit, or too ill-equipped to know that they're in too deep. Many have lost life savings, businesses, marriages, and a few have even commited suicide. Where's the beauty in that again?
Alcohol as been the downfall of many more. Does the existence of alcoholics mean that there is no beauty in an ancient scotch or $1000 bottle of wine?

Should we council all youths to become teetotalers because alcohol is the path to certain destruction?

I agree that profiting from another person's compulsion to gamble is not a good thing (note, the skilled player is not gambling -- only the compulsive player is) but life is filled with those sort of situations. Much of the profits in playing the stock market come not from true wealth being generated but from fleecing others (e.g. selling based on insider news before a stock price plummets). This does not have to be due to insider trading -- it can simply be that you are smarter in your analysis and recognize warning signs sooner.
funkyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 03:01 AM   #65
tiltymcfish0
veteran
 
tiltymcfish0's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,194
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyj View Post
Alcohol as been the downfall of many more. Does the existence of alcoholics mean that there is no beauty in an ancient scotch or $1000 bottle of wine?
pretty much

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyj View Post
Should we council all youths to become teetotalers because alcohol is the path to certain destruction?
yup
tiltymcfish0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 08:13 PM   #66
johnc1
newbie
 
johnc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: AMERICA
Posts: 26
Post Re: Poker is Good for You

lol comparing the stock market and poker as one of the same...actually quite true....you annalyze stock market just like your hands and make wagers, or buy stocks just as the same..
johnc1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 12:14 AM   #67
soontobepro
adept
 
soontobepro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 767
Re: Poker is Good for You

Poker, good for you, lol...

Poker either wastes your time or consumes your life. Let's face it. You either play casual as a losing player, small waste of time, or spend 10+ hours a day full time to play at a winning/pro level. Either way it aint good for you besides providing an income, if you dedicate hundreds of hours to it and have the talent for it. Very few people are obsessed/dedicated enough to make a lot of money at it...like Boku.

I'm really becoming inclined to think that a lot of jobs might be better than grinding the **** out of poker all day long, having no life, to make your 40k a year, or worse go busto, or even worse, having no life X 2, eating sleeping and breathing poker, and therefore actually making good money at it...while frying the **** out of your shriveled, scarred, mind.

Poker is evil gambling.

Last edited by soontobepro; 03-18-2009 at 12:33 AM.
soontobepro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 12:43 AM   #68
Poker Clif
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muskegon, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,783
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by soontobepro View Post
Poker, good for you, lol...

Poker either wastes your time or consumes your life. Let's face it. You either play casual as a losing player, small waste of time, or spend 10+ hours a day full time to play at a winning/pro level. Either way it aint good for you besides providing an income, if you dedicate hundreds of hours to it and have the talent for it. Very few people are obsessed/dedicated enough to make a lot of money at it...like Boku.

I'm really becoming inclined to think that a lot of jobs might be better than grinding the **** out of poker all day long, having no life, to make your 40k a year, or worse go busto, or even worse, having no life X 2, eating sleeping and breathing poker, and therefore actually making good money at it...while frying the **** out of your shriveled, scarred, mind.

Poker is evil gambling.
I have had a great variety of jobs--part-time, full-time, and temporary. I have had active and sedentary jobs, factory office and factory floor jobs, and I have worked all three shifts (sometimes in the same week). I am now a full-time poker player.

Every job has it's advantages and disadvantages, and that is of course true for poker as well.


Disadvantages:

You can work all day, or even all week, and lose money.

You are not treated fairly by the US income tax system--you are much more likely to have to prove that you are a "professional gambler" than if you are a a professional plumber or a professional musician.

A lot of people do not respect what you do. A lot more don't really understand it. Some will even assume that you have a "gambling problem."

It can mess up your social life and relationships. Try explaining to your wife/bf/gf/child/bff that the best games are on weekends, or that you need to grind for 60 hours that week to maintain your VIP level on PokerStars.


Advantages:

You have complete freedom to choose your own dress code, work hours, work rules, days off, and vacations.

You can work where you want--at your home, at a local tournament, at a casino, or anyplace that you can take your laptop and an air card.

As with a commissioned salesman, there is almost no limit to how much you can make. It depends only on how much talent you have, how hard you are willing to work, and how much attention you pay to details such as study time, table selection, bankroll management, and tilt control.

This is the first year that I have played full-time, as well as my first year multitabling, and I'm still learning a lot. I'm not making a ton of money yet, but I'm having fun, building a bankroll, and enjoying the flexibility. And I'll still be having fun a year or two from now, when I expect to be making more money playing poker than I ever made doing anything else.

Last edited by Poker Clif; 03-18-2009 at 12:46 AM. Reason: fixed sentence with word missing
Poker Clif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 12:46 AM   #69
soontobepro
adept
 
soontobepro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 767
Re: Poker is Good for You

So basically you have no life and lie online, and to yourself, about how great it is/going to be eventually. Gotcha.

Last edited by soontobepro; 03-18-2009 at 12:53 AM.
soontobepro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 04:51 AM   #70
Poker Clif
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muskegon, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,783
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyj View Post
Alcohol as been the downfall of many more. Does the existence of alcoholics mean that there is no beauty in an ancient scotch or $1000 bottle of wine?

Should we council all youths to become teetotalers because alcohol is the path to certain destruction?

I agree that profiting from another person's compulsion to gamble is not a good thing (note, the skilled player is not gambling -- only the compulsive player is) but life is filled with those sort of situations. Much of the profits in playing the stock market come not from true wealth being generated but from fleecing others (e.g. selling based on insider news before a stock price plummets). This does not have to be due to insider trading -- it can simply be that you are smarter in your analysis and recognize warning signs sooner.
Well, yes, that would be a good idea.

Of course, alcohol is not a certain path to destruction. But yes, I would counsel anyone not to even try it. There are of course many that drink alcohol in moderation. But it is clearly more dangerous than gambling or any other addiction that you can name, and in my opinion drinking alcohol is playing with fire.

I don't think you can overestimate the destruction done by alcohol. I had a job where I worked with addicts for 12 years. I saw every kind of addiction imaginable, from cocaine to alcohol to mushrooms to you-name-it. Nothing comes close to alcohol.

The best and most obvious example is the number of people killed or injured in accidents involving drunk drivers, but it goes deeper than that.

I was watching a TV show a few years ago, I think it was on the Discovery Channel. An emergency room doctor was asked what percentage of admissions had to do with alcohol, and without having to think about it, he said it was 50%.

The interviewer was taken aback, and asked if he was sure of that number. The doctor explained that many commonplace injuries that they see every day have to do with alcohol, for example, a man who came in with a broken arm, who it turns out broke his arm because he was drunk and fell down the stairs.

Not only is alcohol dangerous and destructive, but a huge percentage of medical costs, which effect all of us, are alcohol-related. I am 53 years old, have never consumed an alcoholic beverage, and don't know why anyone would ever want to.

I guess it must be fun to drink alcohol. It may also be fun to drive 100 miles per hour on your way to work. That doesn't make either a good idea.
Poker Clif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 04:56 AM   #71
Poker Clif
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muskegon, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,783
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by soontobepro View Post
So basically you have no life and lie online, and to yourself, about how great it is/going to be eventually. Gotcha.
You know that I am lying? Congratulations on your ability to read minds, and to analyze my life while knowing almost nothing about it. With those skills, you could easily be a millionaire if you played poker full-time.
Poker Clif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 09:38 AM   #72
888nick
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: england
Posts: 395
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by soontobepro View Post
So basically you have no life and lie online, and to yourself, about how great it is/going to be eventually. Gotcha.
Man what a hate filled loser you are! Someones doing something that makes them happy and you spit on them....Truly sir you are beyond contempt and the world would be a better place if people like you were not in it.
888nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 02:30 PM   #73
tiltymcfish0
veteran
 
tiltymcfish0's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,194
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by 888nick View Post
Man what a hate filled loser you are! Someones doing something that makes them happy and you spit on them....
+1

jealous much?
tiltymcfish0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 07:01 PM   #74
soontobepro
adept
 
soontobepro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 767
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
You know that I am lying? Congratulations on your ability to read minds, and to analyze my life while knowing almost nothing about it. With those skills, you could easily be a millionaire if you played poker full-time.
"You can work all day, or even all week, and lose money.

You are not treated fairly by the US income tax system--you are much more likely to have to prove that you are a "professional gambler" than if you are a a professional plumber or a professional musician.

A lot of people do not respect what you do. A lot more don't really understand it. Some will even assume that you have a "gambling problem."

It can mess up your social life and relationships. Try explaining to your wife/bf/gf/child/bff that the best games are on weekends, or that you need to grind for 60 hours that week to maintain your VIP level on PokerStars."
soontobepro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 11:14 PM   #75
Poker Clif
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muskegon, Michigan, USA
Posts: 4,783
Re: Poker is Good for You

Quote:
Originally Posted by soontobepro View Post
"You can work all day, or even all week, and lose money.

You are not treated fairly by the US income tax system--you are much more likely to have to prove that you are a "professional gambler" than if you are a a professional plumber or a professional musician.

A lot of people do not respect what you do. A lot more don't really understand it. Some will even assume that you have a "gambling problem."

It can mess up your social life and relationships. Try explaining to your wife/bf/gf/child/bff that the best games are on weekends, or that you need to grind for 60 hours that week to maintain your VIP level on PokerStars."
Wow, is that really what I said? I would have sworn that I also mentioned the positive aspects of being a poker player.

----------------------------------

There has been a lot of sarcasm and hyperbole in this thread, but I need to ask you a serious question.

Your name on these forums is "soontobepro". Why did you choose this name, if you real feel as you state in this thread?

Indeed, if you feel this way about poker playing, why are you on these forums? If poker playing is such a waste of time, why are you even wasting your time particpating in these forums?

I would really like to know.
Poker Clif is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online