Changing From Online to Live Poker Forces Some Adjustments

[Poker Clif]

Interesting article, but a basic premise is, at least in part, flawed. Early in the article, it says, "First, you have to find and go to a casino every time you want to play."

There are a lot of Americans who don't live near a casino. Any many of us, including just about anyone that lives in the state of Michigan, probably live a lot closer to a charity room than to a casino. In my case, there are 3 charity rooms within 10 miles of my home. There are 0 casinos, within 100 miles of my home, which run poker tournaments. So the choices get complicated.

I was playing SNGs and MTTs up to $10 on PokerStars. Yesterday I cashed in a $25 MTT in a charity room, which I think is the lowest tournament buy-in in my city. My bankroll requirements have more than doubled. And the charity's rake is 20%!

I can beat a 20% rake (I did it playing $1 + .20 SNG on PokerStars while building a bankroll to play $5, and the charity fish are much worse than micro online players), but I'm not going to get rich doing it.

I could drive to a casino and pay a lot less rake. But the two closest casinos which hold tournaments (both about 110 miles from my home) have tournaments which start at between $40 and $80, depending on the night and the casino, and that's a bankroll nightmare in my situation.

I'm not going to go to a casino just to check it out and blow through $200 or more on food, buy-ins and lodging. And I would only get one shot every day before I needed to pay for lodging before playing the next night's tournament, unless I camped out or slept in my car. I would gladly do either if that would make casinos a viable option.

The bottom line is that my best option, my only option really, is to grind my way up in the charity rooms, starting with the $25 and $30 buy-ins, and avoiding tournaments with rebuys and add-ons. The charity tournaments go all the way up to $100, but again, I've never played even as high as $25 except for an occasional fun thing to do, maybe once every three months, more for the recreation than the prize pool.

My goal is to soon be playing the charity tournaments up to 5 nights a week, but when I have the bankroll to start moving up, I will have to take another look at the rake. I have a massive edge against the $25 field, but as I move up, that edge won't be as big, and I'll have to be really careful about paying huge rake at buy-ins where my edge might be much smaller.

I guess all of this is a long way of saying that for many of us, especially tournament specialists, it's not as easy as simply playing in a casino. In fact, in some parts of the US (Alaska and Michigan's upper peninsula come to mind), the nearest casino could be hundreds of miles away.

For many of us, the options are definitely not good.

[Ray Zee]

basically going to a charity place to play, casino, or poker only room is the same for the article.

but you have casinos not too far from muskegon, i know as i have spent some time there on the lake. yes you may have to stay over but playing higher is needed to overcome expenses. that is the rub of losing internet.

[Poker Clif]

Originally Posted by Ray Zee

basically going to a charity place to play, casino, or poker only room is the same for the article.

but you have casinos not too far from muskegon, i know as i have spent some time there on the lake. yes you may have to stay over but playing higher is needed to overcome expenses. that is the rub of losing internet.

There are casinos closer to Muskegon, but they don't all run poker tournaments. Little River Casino closed their poker room a year ago.

As far as overcoming expenses, I would have to check the math real carefully on that. The expense of travel/food/lodging to play more than 100 miles away, compared with playing at home, where my gas/food/drink/lodging is about $5 per tournament for gas and a couple cokes, is significant.

There is of course a point where a winning player covers expenses, but unless a Heartland Poker Tour event comes to Michigan, at least on my side of the state, the options for making serious money are not good. I've looked at several casinos 100-150 miles from Muskegon, the tournament buy-ins range from $40-$80, and the fields are often very small. A year ago I was staying at a casino near the upper penninulsa while on non-poker business, I asked about the tournament that day, and I was told that it didn't go off because there were not enough players for a full table. I definitely don't want to drive for several hours and have THAT happen!

Maybe it's different since Black Friday, but from what I've seen and heard, the casino tournament options, both in Michigan and other states, aren't good at all right now. Of course once I have the bankroll to move up, I will take a close look at the situation.

[Ray Zee]

you maybe need to learn to play live cash. that is where the best money is anyway.
to really earn lots at poker you cant be a specialist. learn it all, thats my advice.

[JustinZee]

Ray is right, play cash games. Live tournaments have crappy structures and usually have an outrageous rake. Once you got a pretty big BR or are good enough to be staked u could maybe consider playing some 500s or 1ks (possibly higher) but for the stakes ur talking about there aren't many good value tourneys. You have to be playing pretty high buyin mtts in the live arena before you can expect it to have a good structure and actually worth playing. So my advice is start off playing 1/2 and try to build up a br. Keep track of your results and move up to 2/5 when u feel you're ready.

GL

[Tyrober]

You are not going to find good tournaments in your price range. But don't complain that your nearest casino is 110 miles away. Mine is 300 miles away and I make the drive at least once a month. BUT you need to try to play in some cash games. Your going to have to adapt your game and build up your bank roll up if you want to get serious about it. Once your bankroll is around $3000 or so you can take a shot at some real tournaments. For 200+30 or 300+40 you can get in a good tournament with some good money. But play in your charity tournaments and build your bank roll up so you can take a real shot at some money.

[theory21]

Personally I'd like to find an article that talks about switching from Online mtt's to live cash games. I originally planned to play mtt's live here in Vegas but there just aren't enough of them with good expectation to make a living. Sort of forces me to play cash games which I'm not at all familiar with

[Bene Gesserit]

Originally Posted by theory21

Personally I'd like to find an article that talks about switching from Online mtt's to live cash games. I originally planned to play mtt's live here in Vegas but there just aren't enough of them with good expectation to make a living. Sort of forces me to play cash games which I'm not at all familiar with

Most Casinos spread 1-2 NLH cash games ... try them out..... much of your online concepts are fairly worthless at low stakes live, but not much time spent at the tables will be a good way to see the differences between cash and tourney play. If you like to read, Harringtons two books on cash game play can help too! Good luck to you!

[xTrav]

It is quite typical for people to move to new cities for their jobs. If you want to play poker full time and there are no casinos then you might have to consider moving? Right now I drive 100+ miles across state lines to play.

[Poker Clif]

Originally Posted by xTrav

It is quite typical for people to move to new cities for their jobs. If you want to play poker full time and there are no casinos then you might have to consider moving? Right now I drive 100+ miles across state lines to play.

That's not going to happen in my case. My wife's mother is 89 hears old. My mother is younger, but is slowly going blind. Moving is not an option.

Something just occured to me, however. As a retired member of the US military, I can fly free (space available) on any military flight in the United States. That certainly could broadens my travel options.

[cdog]

Dude, you are better off working at McDonalds than trying to grind $25 charity tourneys for a living. You need to be realistic. Even playing $1-2 cash cant support anything more than a transient lifestyle.

[reatsharks]

gl your plan is vballer

[suspa555]

Dude that's awesome one.

[Poker Clif]

Originally Posted by cdog

Dude, you are better off working at McDonalds than trying to grind $25 charity tourneys for a living. You need to be realistic. Even playing $1-2 cash cant support anything more than a transient lifestyle.

I see your point, but fortunately my wife makes enough that I don't need to make a lot of money right out of the gate. Plus, we are working toward becoming totally debt free (it's been several years since we've had a car payment) so we're in a pretty good financial position. We also have outstanding health insurance (my wife works for a hospital) so that takes some of the pressure off as well.

So, I have time to figure out what I'm doing while I work my way up the levels.

[JAMWOW]

Charity rakes are absurd if you can get to a casino definitely do so.