Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Two Plus Two Magazine Forum Articles and features about poker and gambling in general.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2015, 04:23 PM   #1
reneener77
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 14
Question Burned cards

With online poker A random generator deals cards. Do they also burn cards?
reneener77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 03:58 AM   #2
TeamTrousers
talks the talk
 
TeamTrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Remembering when stars was good
Posts: 12,884
Re: Burned cards

It doesn't really matter.

Some claim to do so, but most don't bother.

If the RNG is properly random then there's no point, the end result will be the same in the long run anyway.
TeamTrousers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 08:48 PM   #3
TheDonkeyFish
centurion
 
TheDonkeyFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: on the range
Posts: 128
Re: Burned cards

Isn't there really no point in burning cards while dealing live assuming that the deck was properly shuffled?
TheDonkeyFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 02:31 AM   #4
Buzz
gramps
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 18,258
Re: Burned cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDonkeyFish View Post
Isn't there really no point in burning cards while dealing live assuming that the deck was properly shuffled?
The idea behind burning, as I understand it, is twofold:
(1) It's more difficult to deal thirds than seconds.

(2) The card backs come to have little indentations on them. Someone with really good eyesight might be able to tell what the next card to be dealt is, based on reading those little indentations.
But if the top card is burned, then anyone who can read the little indentations will not be able to read the card beneath the top card... the card that is to be dealt next.

Thus the dealer burns the top card (1) to cut down on the possibility of cheating by dealing seconds and (2) to make it more difficult to read the back of the next card to be dealt. As I understand it, that's the idea, anyhow.

Buzz
Buzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 06:32 AM   #5
reneener77
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 14
Re: Burned cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
The idea behind burning, as I understand it, is twofold:
(1) It's more difficult to deal thirds than seconds.

(2) The card backs come to have little indentations on them. Someone with really good eyesight might be able to tell what the next card to be dealt is, based on reading those little indentations.
But if the top card is burned, then anyone who can read the little indentations will not be able to read the card beneath the top card... the card that is to be dealt next.

Thus the dealer burns the top card (1) to cut down on the possibility of cheating by dealing seconds and (2) to make it more difficult to read the back of the next card to be dealt. As I understand it, that's the idea, anyhow.

Buzz
Watch this, even if your not blind you can learn this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUPLXpKewr8
reneener77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2015, 01:23 AM   #6
Sarah Meyer
stranger
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2
Re: Burned cards

Agreed with reneener77 Idea to burn the card is that the top card on the deck is visible to players during the previous betting round, and any player cheat might be able to spot a mark on the top card and therefore gain an advantage on his opponents.
Sarah Meyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2015, 11:46 AM   #7
BigBlue56
veteran
 
BigBlue56's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 2,395
Re: Burned cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
The idea behind burning, as I understand it, is twofold:
(1) It's more difficult to deal thirds than seconds.

(2) The card backs come to have little indentations on them. Someone with really good eyesight might be able to tell what the next card to be dealt is, based on reading those little indentations.
But if the top card is burned, then anyone who can read the little indentations will not be able to read the card beneath the top card... the card that is to be dealt next.

Thus the dealer burns the top card (1) to cut down on the possibility of cheating by dealing seconds and (2) to make it more difficult to read the back of the next card to be dealt. As I understand it, that's the idea, anyhow.

Buzz

Yeah, I've just thought that in case the top card was marked, it was discarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTrousers View Post
It doesn't really matter.

Some claim to do so, but most don't bother.

If the RNG is properly random then there's no point, the end result will be the same in the long run anyway.
Because of why cards are burned, I don't think online cards need to be burned. People that want to argue that... are people that probably just enjoy arguing
BigBlue56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2015, 10:30 AM   #8
reneener77
stranger
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 14
Re: Burned cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBlue56 View Post
Yeah, I've just thought that in case the top card was marked, it was discarded.



Because of why cards are burned, I don't think online cards need to be burned. People that want to argue that... are people that probably just enjoy arguing

I see this different.

I use Holdem indicator, does Holdem indicator take burned cards in consideration? I dont think so.

But what if some sites use burned cards? Then calculators like HI are off in their calculations.
reneener77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 08:40 AM   #9
Mike Haven
Moderotor of Moderots
 
Mike Haven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Self-flagellating re poor modding
Posts: 12,828
Re: Burned cards

Why?

To make it easier for you, pretend you know that the last two cards of a shuffled deck are the Ace and King but you don't know in which order they are sitting.

If the top card has to be burned and the other dealt, what are the odds that the card that is dealt is the Ace?

If the top card is just dealt, what are the odds that it's the Ace?

Because the burned card is not known, it is simply another unknown card in the deck and burning doesn't affect the odds in any way.

Superstitious players will obviously think, "But the card that was burned might have been the card that I wanted!" If you come across these types, they're the sort you should want to play against.
Mike Haven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 09:00 PM   #10
TheDonkeyFish
centurion
 
TheDonkeyFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: on the range
Posts: 128
Re: Burned cards

Thanks for the insight fellas
TheDonkeyFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2015, 09:36 PM   #11
JMein89
enthusiast
 
JMein89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 68
Re: Burned cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Haven View Post
....
Superstitious players will obviously think, "But the card that was burned might have been the card that I wanted!" If you come across these types, they're the sort you should want to play against.
To all players who think this way please come find me on the tables. Lol well said.
JMein89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 01:56 AM   #12
ilove5betjam
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2
Re: Burned cards

lol are you lot trying to send yourself crazy with this pointless discussion honestly i can't catch my breath here.
ilove5betjam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2016, 12:15 PM   #13
csudlow
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 39
Re: Burned cards

One other effect of this is that it makes it hard for a deck mechanic to "rig" a deck.

I would support the idea of dealing more burned cards just to deal through an entire physical deck if the shuffler is not good.

It does not matter whether the cards are burned or not online. As each card is randomly generated. The software does not shuffle a virtual deck each round like a physical dealer. Also the software does not generate 52 virtual cards in a stack each round either. As each card comes out they are randomly generated. Thus burn cards are fairly irrelevant online assuming the randomness of any card coming out is proper.

Poker Chris
csudlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2016, 05:03 AM   #14
kerpoking3
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2
Re: Burned cards

If the cards are randomly generated than why on Poker888 i get.


Round 1
I get 8,8 - Bet 5.000 all folds.

Round 2
I get 10,10 - Bet 5.000 and get raised by 2 Queens.

So how come in the period of 2 rounds there are 3 pairs dealt, when there isn't any for the next 15?


Or yesterday.

I get 2 kings, i bet 5.000, he raise to 10.000, i raise to 20.000, he all in, i call.

Guy has AA and flop a ****ing QUADS of ACES.
kerpoking3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2016, 10:49 PM   #15
rickroll
grinder
 
rickroll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Under A Rock
Posts: 504
Re: Burned cards

Good point clearly an exhaustive, anecdotal, 2 day, 16 hand sample size is massive evidence online poker is rigged at 888.
rickroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2016, 02:46 AM   #16
assortednuts
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 165
Re: Burned cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerpoking3 View Post
If the cards are randomly generated than why on Poker888 i get.


Round 1
I get 8,8 - Bet 5.000 all folds.

Round 2
I get 10,10 - Bet 5.000 and get raised by 2 Queens.

So how come in the period of 2 rounds there are 3 pairs dealt, when there isn't any for the next 15?


Or yesterday.

I get 2 kings, i bet 5.000, he raise to 10.000, i raise to 20.000, he all in, i call.

Guy has AA and flop a ****ing QUADS of ACES.
Just to be clear on this, you think that the rng did not burn the first card, so the other guy flopped quads? Just so we are completely clear on this, if he HAD burnt a card would you still have been drawing to 2 outs anyway? And just how did this rng cheat you, as it was all going in anyway w/o ANY aces coming, correct? And, just exactly which dog did the rng have in this fight? I believe there was somebody who posted earlier that wants you to come to his home game. Just say'n.
assortednuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2016, 10:55 AM   #17
tawtttt
newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 21
Re: Burned cards

omg more coolers than a cool thing from coolville bro maybe you should quit
tawtttt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2017, 06:14 AM   #18
annie evtimova
banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4
Re: Burned cards

Nothing there not available every time
annie evtimova is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online