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Old 09-02-2010, 04:13 PM   #26
justoocool
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

Thanks that was a great article.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:28 PM   #27
Sparky79
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

Could someone post the article? Unfortunately, the link does not seem to work...
Is the article titled: Level-Head thinking?
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:47 PM   #28
Foucault
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky79 View Post
Could someone post the article? Unfortunately, the link does not seem to work...
Is the article titled: Level-Head thinking?
Yes, it's this article: http://www.thinkingpoker.net/article...eadedthinking/
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:53 PM   #29
Summoner500
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

At What kind of spots do we apply this theory? is there a way to work with these concepts outside of the table? when i play i use level 2 and game theory , villain's actions eliminate holdings from his range and based on this we conclude what he might have otr , how can you use level 3 on top of this?


if we bet we rep a bluff/value hand and if our opponent calls he rep a middling hand or a draw , how can we answer if we should keep betting? our bluffs can be bad against him if he calls alot or good if he folds a lot , if the board is high cards our betting seems strong but his call seems strong aswell , so do we keep betting or give up? so we already found a spot where level 3 cant be applied because its impossible to say what villain might do despite the information we gave him.


What if we are the caller? villain keeps betting and we are calling . we rep a middling hand , does he have it? or he thinks he can make us fold? how can we conclude which one it is? we know what he knows but despite that we cant conclude what he will do about it.


All these lead us to think about the texture and ranges to find out what action is preferable which is level 2 thinking , if the board is strong for example we will prefer folding our middling hand because he is more likely to have it , if we used level 3 for this situation we may aswell called that bet because in his eyes we seem weak and his bluffs can work well but game theory disagree with this , gto will also bluff lighter(not looser but weaker) on dry textures but it wont bluff with the same strength on wet textures , which again disagree with level 3. Level 3 would bet a lot on wet textures because it reps a strong hand and less on dry textures where it cant rep much right?

In your river example which is rather extreme not all villains will check back their higher pairs , i think this call is very low ev , i believe close or lower than breakeven from a gto standpoint.


Some people hype a lot this level thingie but i dont get it how do you apply it, what are the most frequent situations where you can *level* your opponent?

Last edited by Summoner500; 11-02-2015 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 11-03-2015, 02:00 PM   #30
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

Good questions, summoner. I think the best answer I can give you is that game theory, which you reference in your post, is sort of the limit that all of this leveling approaches. Sometimes you can feel reasonably confident determining that your opponent thinks a certain way and then act accordingly to exploit him. The various "levels" that I describe in that (very old) article are rough examples of types of players you may encounter. But there's no guarantee that you'll be able to apply any of this, and against players who are as good as or better than you you probably won't.

Game theory does offer some interesting insights into how to handle situations you are asking about, like when you have a bluff-catcher facing bets from a polarized range or vice versa. It's important to understand that the bluff-catching player in these spots doesn't have a lot of good options. Calling and folding both probably have Expected Values close to 0 unless you have some reason to believe that you can figure out and exploit some imbalance in your opponent's strategy. If you can, great. If you can't, a balanced calling strategy is the best you can do (and therefore "optimal").
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:01 PM   #31
JivaroSLO
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

awesome
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:26 PM   #32
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

I hate the concept of leveling. If you are ever on the "wrong" level you lose. So why keep playing the guessing game?

Thinking about your opponents range, thinking about what you hold and thinking about what your opponent thinks you are holding is nice, but I don't think it gets you where you want to go.

Instead of finding yourself making countless bluffs or making stupid calls because you thought you picked up on something; PLAY TIGHT! As you are playing fewer hands you will be able to study your opponents at the table. For every hour of TIGHT play try and make 1 thats right ONE only play that you think will be profitable based upon some new information you picked up on while you were studying. Keep repeating this pattern and you will soon be seeing the spots to bluff and understand how ****ing dumb your bluffs were before. The game will unmask itself a bit.

Poker Chris
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Old 05-08-2016, 01:48 PM   #33
inrenokid
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Re: 3rd level thinking, by A. Brokos

What you are saying is why they level , you can call it understanding, in your reply you are clueless of the power and at high stakes the need for it. Anyone can see what you are doing and change. No friend you should read up on leveling .

Last edited by inrenokid; 05-08-2016 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Correction
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