Cliffs:

Left Wing = Ideology of Envy and Sloth


Right Wing = Ideology of Pride and Greed

Can you give any sort of evidence that you can achieve better healthcare without government intervention (aside from just stating it as an axiom of your belief system).

What on earth? Where is this slippery slope argument coming from? People want government healthcare therefore they must also want a free iPhone and a pony? This is no argument at all.

Also, the taxation = theft meme requires a very loose definition of the word theft. It doesn't help your case and makes you sound like a nutter.

i'm an oil man

I don't think a lot of people realize that it will be basically against the law to not have health insurance in 2014. So get ready to cough out some dough whether you like it (or want it) or not.

About half of NHS employees feel overstretched. They are wrong. They are also free to leave the industry if they dont like it.

By definition the medical industry will never be comfortable, its a stressful job with long hours but the only significant figures are ability to attract staff, waiting lists and some measure of successful outcomes. All of which the NHS is perfectly good to excellent at.

As for the second bit, you realise that "for some reason" lots of people from any country on earth dont just walk into the NHS for healthcare. I mean, surprising i know, but whilst 7 billion people could get emergency care if they travel all the way to Britain they dont.

The point is they only offer "free" treatment of emergencies or things that directly effect others.

Its a pathetic argument to say the NHS is bad because it treats people in emergencies. Pathetic as a viewpoint on how others should be treated and pathetic in that it has no real world application as an argument because its been this way for three generations and yet its still never bankrupted the country.

So you are obviously clueless as to Britains current financial state.

Putting aside your biased posts, can you now say why you are so pro government healthcare?

bahbamickey is supposedly a wealth advisor who didn't understand how marginal tax rates work. Mostly he's just an indefatigable talking point spewing machine.

Why don't you ask seniors? They've been around a long time and seen a few things, and will fight to the death to keep their Medicare.

Or you can just pay the tax penalty to offset the fact that you're already free-loading on the system. Sorry the free-ride is over. (well unless the republicans crank it back up again)

Why is it not theft again when my premiums pay for all the invincible 25-year-olds who get in a car wreck and stiff the hospital on a $100k bill?

I don't think this is correct at all. A pretty large number of americans live paycheck to paycheck, and if it were free to go in for cheap preventative care, they'd do it in a heartbeat. It would be very beneficial for society overall as well. You think it's $20k losses that people are worried about, but I think a lot of people are worried about something as low as $500 making them unable to pay their rent for the month.

I don't know if you've ever had to go to the ER for anything, but for something as minor as a concussion you can easily be billed >$1000, even with insurance. Someone who is poor is just going to not go, or not pay the bill.

This.

Also for a lot of people the 500 dollars, or even 50 bucks for a "check up" can yield them a lot of tangible benefits.

New copy of Madden for example.

Read Tien's posts in a different thread. He was shocked to find how little coverage his workers had and actually was moved to cover their asses.

The vast majority of people basically go around thinking "I don't need it yet. Later. Won't happen to me." They are probably right. But when they are wrong, all of us pay.

Sorry I reread the magazine article that stated it and it was "health care and social services".

My bad.

I think health care is something everybody in a 1st world country should have access to.

How the money is distributed however is where I completely disagree.

I personally would never go without health insurance but my point is a lot of people aren't aware that they're in for a nice surprise in 2014. (Yes, unless) It amazes me how uninformed people are, they just don't get that like it or not they'll be shelling out hundreds of bucks each month or pay the tax penalty. (as you said)

Let me tell you a story about Steve, its a bit of a riddle. Steve was a good guy, but he wasnt so good with money. He ran up 25k in credit card debt, got a mortgage on a 200k house and didnt pay taxes on his small business and ran up debts to Inland Revenue of 35k. He knew what he had to do, so he went to the pub with his friends and had a few pints, bought his fair share of rounds, then on the next Monday he started the process to declare bankruptcy.

What drove him to bankruptcy? The drinks?

My posts arent biased, they are informed. There is a difference.

wat

A good " balanced " govermant healthcare could reduce the costs dramatic.
Its amazing that people still believe " private " is cheaper.

I can understand such a discussion only from one point..personal freedom to choose ...or forced to pay .

Yep.

A fun exercise for people to play around with that can help the "guvment bad, private good" people see the difference between the most costly health care system in the world (the U.S.) and other universal health care countries:

Health Care Budget Deficit Calculator

Edit: the link doesn't appear to be working right with explorer (the graph isn't showing up on my computer). But it works fine in firefox. If the graph doesn't show up for anyone, just google "Health Care Budget Deficit Calculator" and click on that link and hopefully then it should show up.

Then you need to run for congress.

I agree completely, a rural doc that is really interested in public health came and gave a couple lectures to our medschool awhile back.

I don't remember what year the data was from, but in the US, the average bill leading to medical bankruptcy is less than 10k. Additionally, something like 40% of those people going bankrupt had medical insurance. Its really a myth that you don't have to worry about medical expenses if you have insurance. Realistically you need to have medical insurance and tens of thousands in the bank to be financially prepared to deal with a major illness.

Or maybe the drug companies charge whatever they want because government pays for it.

Yep. Harvard Law School professor Elizabeth Warren really nailed it in this short video:

Professor Warren Debunks A Few Healthcare Myths