We already do provide healthcare for everyone in the ERs.

A legit NHS is all but a necessity at this point unless we as a society accept simply letting some people die in the ER because they can't pay for it.

Not sure.

In Canada, the government gives everyone healthcare but the healthcare budget is over 50% of the entire budget and growing.

It's great to have, just don't know how it can be sustainable in the future.

When you dont spend X bajillion dollars invading random countries, thats not as bad as it sounds

Source? That doesn't seem right.

And, because it seems that its not said enough, the US is already spending more per capita on health care than any other country. Take from that what you will but it at least means that there are lots of ways you can spend your healthcare money and that Government run healthcare doesn't have to be super expensive.

Edit: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt48b-eng.htm Seems to indicate that it's around 20% of combined federal, provincial, and local budget spending.

This is a great article about health care around the world, with comparisons to the USA. Basically you couldn't design a worse system than the one found in America if you were forced at gunpoint...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082101778.html

I've known a few canadians that have had to travel to the US for operations because waiting lists are so ridiculous here. Personal anecdote, but still, wtf?

A++

Conversely, my stepmonster (Canuck national) had to travel back to Canuckistan to get a quadruple-bypass a few years ago because she lost her health insurance when she got laid off and could not afford the operation. She is *literally* alive today if for no other reason than she was born in Red Deer.

Personal anecdote, but still, wtf?

ETA: As to the point of this thread, I am completely in favor not of "government run healthcare" but rather "government run health insurance." Get everyone on Medicare imho.

And most importantly IMO stop acting like it's AAA Widget Manufacturing Corp's responsibility to provide health insurance for its workers and their families. They're in the business to make widgets not health insurance. This is the dumbest model ever. People who complain about paying higher taxes in exchange for "Medicare for everyone" seem to have no problem paying more for goods and services to companies in the US because of the embedded costs associated with insurance premiums that continually outpace inflation.

I'm guessing they have a bit of money to pay for it? What's the waiting list for the working poor in the US that can't afford HC and can't qualify for public assistance? Better yet, at least the canadians were able to obtain diagnostic results to know they need surgery and maybe get it taken care of before having to zip through traffic in an ambulance to an ER. I know, wtf, right?

b

Yeah but when you join your neighbor to the south every time he does its a problem

What will really impact my country Canada is the population aging and the demand it puts on the system.

Many in the USA will say no if they have healthcare. Ask them that question after they lose their job and have no health care

I have had 10 surgeries in my life some elective and one life threatening. Every time in Canada I was dealt with in a timely fashion. Recently I needed a MRI on my knee. It wasn't an emergency and I waited 60 days. If I had wanted to I could have paid $750 and had it done the next day. I waited and it was free

Some serious truth in your comment, and some blind overstatement, but cut backs in Euro militarys have freed up some money for such things as HC coverage! So it would not hurt to limit the Iraqs to much less frequent and maybe 8 Carriers is enough!

Obama's HC idea is as unconstitutional as Social security as they are forcing people to buy something, IMO. However, they confuse simple minded people by telling them they are just taxing them and then giving them that money back at retirement (in the case of SS).

Taxing is not, in any way, unconstitutional. In fact, if Obama had passed the exact same healthcare bill with the only difference being that the individual mandate was structured like a tax and called a tax, the PPACA wouldn't be coming before the SCOTUS this spring.

The health of its citizens should be a priority for any government in any "rich" country. Government funded is good. There might be other models that work too, so long as everyone is looked after. If everyone is not, then it's a load of rubbish.

Why did you quote my post if you didn't read it?

You made the same point as me just using different words. We are both arguing that if Obama restructured the bill and used words like "tax" he would be in like flynn and that both it and SS should be illegal since we know that it is forcing Americans to purchase a product.

Taxpayers are already paying for others food and housing. Now we want to add health care, but where does this stop. Pretty soon tax payers are going to have to start paying for cars and cell phones since we all know that in a rich country these days you have to have that stuff. Pretty soon we aren't going to have any taxpayers left. Still trying to decide if this is Obama's ultimate goal or not.

Do you mind paying more for goods and services because of the hidden costs associated with employer-provided health insurance? Or are you of the opinion that these costs do not exist?

Well thank you for informing me what my point was, but that isn't what I'm saying at all. The fact that a simple change in wording could change a bill from unconstitutional to constitutional would point me more in the direction that the bill IS constitutional. Taxing Americans is always forcing them to pay for something, and it clearly falls within the range of powers given to Congress. Obviously Congress must use/apportion those funds constitutionally (that's where the Obamacare debate lies), but the real world is full of places where the "omg taxes zomg they're forcing me to pay for this = unconstitutional" argument falls apart.

Why wouldn't the burden placed on employers to pay for things like this already be taken into factor when deciding how much to pay an employee (therefore lowering the employees take home pay)? Of course this can not happen when (what should be illegal) price fixing is going on in the labor market (known as minimum wage).

This is great idea, too bad the insurance lobbiest and the cfr dominated politicans will never let it through. I think people should also be able to opt out of medicare and get the $10,000 a year added to their SS check. There is private high deductible insurance that is not too expensive.

Say you are on vacation in Hawaii have a heart attack and end up in the hospital. Basically the ambulance that picks you up is public, you are taken to the nearest hospital which is public/private. Seems to me the government is involved in health care. You could make the case to treat hospitals like you do the fire department, but the problem is public sector union doctors might bankrupt the system. Since everyone uses the system, the funding might come from a national (city or state) sales tax.

LOL, is this seriously how right wingers view the world? What a joke.

I've know Americans who have died or had chronic pain because they could not afford treatment that would have been covered in Canada. Personal anecdote, but still, wtf?

Why would anyone want an inefficient government involved with the well-being of the citizens? Even if you ignore all the negative effects government has in the healthcare market. Add those in and it's not too difficult to see how nobody should want government involvement unless they want to pay more for worse quality.

That's how a lot of the world works. When people want "free" stuff, everyone pays for it through taxes. For example, instead of just buying your own healthcare for cheaper than you're paying now in taxes+insurance, you're paying taxes into a large pool for everyone to use, whether they paid into it or not.

But to make it worse, when things are guaranteed "free" through taxes, the rates can keep going up because people are forced to pay taxes and have no say in the matter. This is why anything that is publicly funded through taxes is inefficient. There is no competition and there is no positive incentive to produce better, cheaper products.

But people love things they think are free! That's why it's not unrealistic to think free laptops, cellphones, TVs, etc. could happen in the future. You'll just have to pay more for them while innovation and quality cease to improve.

So it's all fine and dandy if you're life busto and are literally getting things for free, but the rest of society is being dragged down by the government because of all the free things people want. It's also a good way to busto the nation, as seen in the present. When you promise people free things and the tax pool is dry, debt accumulates.

Seems the lobbyists did a great work in the USA !!!!

The US have the most expensive health system in the world and if you ad
people without an insurance or a basic insurance its verry expensive.

I am in germany and we have a " welfare insurance " its not perfect and many complain. We have also a private sector for additional treatment and for higher incomes. If you earn above 80 000 you can choose your insurance all others have the basic state healthcare.

The basic state health care pay nearly any basic treatment including cancer, hospital, MRT , CT .... But you have to pay a verry low additional number to reduce the costs.

At sample if you visit the doctor 5$ , 5$ for medicals, here and there 20-30$ / dentist .

Additional privat insurances cover special treatment, at sample basic teeth
are free...better material or better looking is private.

The most funny anyone is insured and noone is scared but we pay 50% less / citizen than the US. So far i read US 6000/ citizen / year, Germany 3000/ citizen / year. And of course someone still paid for the healthcare.

If you google for Stats you see that you could easy insure anyone for the same money that you spend now, but you have to regulate the system and of course some pay. At sample a Hospital Doctor in germany earn way less than a Hospital Doctor in the USA.

Usual its a scandal that you have the most expensive system without free treatment for anyone.... and for myself i had a heart operation with 19, good that i am not born in the USA

I think the government should provide me with everything I ever need, and I don't care who they steal from to provide for me.