Wisconsin Governor deploys "nuclear option" and takes on public unions. - Page 55 - Politics and Economics

Inso0 · 02-21-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aytumious

Do you see unions having any role in the modern US?

No.

They are an outdated mechanic. They prevent businesses and individuals from reaching their upper potential.

In some cases, they single-handedly bring down multi-billion dollar companies. (Hi, UAW.)

Money2Burn · 02-21-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blutarski

all those wonderful CEO's just wanting to reward the exceptional employees, but their hands are tied by teh UNIONS! So sad.

Lookit, businesses are always looking to cut labor costs. Always. If they can get a robot or a trained monkey to do it, they will. It's not necessarily in their best interest to pay more for excellence.

A company has an exceptional worker on their assembly line who wants a raise? Wal-Mart has an excellent shelf stocker who asks for full time hours? Pfft. They'll find someone who can do an average job at a STARTING salary.

They only need to give a few key employees the 'take or leave it' speech, and suddenly there are no more requests for more pay.

Besides, union members have another outlet for advancement- through the union hierarchy.

You think this is a bad thing?

leavesofliberty · 02-21-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

You think this is a bad thing?

efficiency is terribad if you hayt on d capitalizm

suzzer99 · 02-21-2011, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peetar69

the state park next door received a couple of million from the stimulus to direct a creek under the parking lot and beach into the lake. The union construction workers hadn't worked in 9 months (they collected unemployment).

As soon as the funds hit to "put America back to work", they put up a party tent at the entrance to the park and sat in lawn chairs with "on strike" signs. They got there way of course.

I totally believe you aren't just making this up.

A_C_Slater · 02-21-2011, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

You think this is a bad thing?

This is how most people think. They don't understand the purpose of jobs. They think the job itself is the purpose. If you hired a bunch of people to build sandcastles at the beach all day and then one day fire them with no warning they would get all indignant and act like you were a net negative in their lives. "How could he just take away my job? Look at how hard we worked! We shall organize!! Viva La Revolution!!!"

awval999 · 02-21-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blutarski

all those wonderful CEO's just wanting to reward the exceptional employees, but their hands are tied by teh UNIONS! So sad.

Lookit, businesses are always looking to cut labor costs. Always. If they can get a robot or a trained monkey to do it, they will. It's not necessarily in their best interest to pay more for excellence.

A company has an exceptional worker on their assembly line who wants a raise? Wal-Mart has an excellent shelf stocker who asks for full time hours? Pfft. They'll find someone who can do an average job at a STARTING salary.

They only need to give a few key employees the 'take or leave it' speech, and suddenly there are no more requests for more pay.

Besides, union members have another outlet for advancement- through the union hierarchy.

This just isn't true. I worked at Walmart, while I was in the pharmacy and not on the floors most of the workers there liked their employer, got raises, and got promoted. The part-time workers were the ones that wanted to be part-time.

rjoefish · 02-21-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

No.

They are an outdated mechanic. They prevent businesses and individuals from reaching their upper potential.

In some cases, they single-handedly bring down multi-billion dollar companies. (Hi, UAW.)

By this logic there would be no industry leaders that are union, right?

Inso0 · 02-21-2011, 11:14 PM

We both know that there are.

In SPITE of their unions.

But most of those industry leaders are where they are because they have been there the longest. And those very old companies are more likely to be saddled with unions that formed many decades ago where they've parasitically latched on to the vital organs of the company, never to be fully removed.

We both know how difficult it to get rid of unions once they're there. But if you can tell me with a straight face that you don't think those large unionized companies would be better off without their respective cancers, then you're just not paying attention to the rest of the economy.

qdmcg · 02-21-2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iNeedScissors61

I've noticed that the vast majority of the protesters are white. Do you guys think there is a racial element to this, much like how the tea party protesters were predominantly white?

needs more

vwp

JayTeeMe · 02-21-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awval999

This just isn't true. I worked at Walmart, while I was in the pharmacy and not on the floors most of the workers there liked their employer, got raises, and got promoted. The part-time workers were the ones that wanted to be part-time.

This is pretty much my experience with Walmart too. People generally liked working there (even though I hate being in Walmart, it was a rotation).

nizl · 02-21-2011, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_C_Slater

This is how most people think. They don't understand the purpose of jobs. They think the job itself is the purpose. If you hired a bunch of people to build sandcastles at the beach all day and then one day fire them with no warning they would get all indignant and act like you were a net negative in their lives. "How could he just take away my job? Look at how hard we worked! We shall organize!! Viva La Revolution!!!"

Right. Reminds me of the time one of my coworkers pointed to a malfunctioning vending machine and commented, "See, this is the problem with America. They should replace these goddamned machines with vendors and make sure people have jobs."

If you stretch some of the pro-union arguments to their conclusions they resemble that sentiment.

awval999 · 02-22-2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TID!

ROFLMFAO.

So you work there then right? And have talked to employees about their jobs, right? But yes, most store managers actually start as hourly employees or start in hourly management after college. And the healthcare options are quite affordable. And they even give part-time employees healthcare coverage after 1 year. But whatever. You know, I don't.

jogsxyz · 02-22-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iron81

I said this once, but we are nowhere near a fiscal crisis rubicon, at least until Walker started handing out tax breaks to the wealthy.

irons, you are totally out of touch with fiscal reality. The wealthy can move to another state. States and municipalities are $1T in debt. That's only because they use fantasy like creative accounting. Under public corporations rules they would be $3.5T in debt.

zzthe3rd · 02-22-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

By this logic there would be no industry leaders that are union, right?

lol?? Youre being as disingenuous as you were in the NJ teachers thread. I mean cmon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

We both know that there are.

In SPITE of their unions.

But most of those industry leaders are where they are because they have been there the longest. And those very old companies are more likely to be saddled with unions that formed many decades ago where they've parasitically latched on to the vital organs of the company, never to be fully removed.

We both know how difficult it to get rid of unions once they're there. But if you can tell me with a straight face that you don't think those large unionized companies would be better off without their respective cancers, then you're just not paying attention to the rest of the economy.

+1. See: Walmart's opposition to unionization. (Don't get me wrong, Walmart is a scummy company for a number of reasons I am sure we all know of, but from a purely company-success standpoint they are a thing to be admired.)

EricOF · 02-22-2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryHippo

There a lot of private unions protesting too. This is being seen as an attack on unions/workers' rights.

This is not a matter of rights. The proposal essentially says that the state government wants to limit negotiations with public unions with regard to matters of pay and compensation. It will negotiate with them on other matters. It needn't negotiate with them at all. That would not be a violation of anyone's rights. Governments are now bound by law to negotiate with unions any more than they are bound to negotiate with PETA the NRA or NAMBLA.