Wisconsin Governor deploys "nuclear option" and takes on public unions. - Page 242 - Politics and Economics

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

You said it yourself, we had a net-decrease in taxes, including a permanent FREEZE in property taxes. I feel I would have seen a list of fee increases by now if it existed. So I'll call shenanigans on that. Feel free to produce one though.

Having to drive an extra 8 miles for your once-every-decade trip to renew your Drivers license is not a cut in service imo. Where I live, I have four DMV stations within a 30 minute drive. Even more if you count all the little satellite stations where you can file annual renewal paperwork. Even those are overkill because it can all be done online. This is 2011, not 1990. You can renew your auto registration on your cell phone, you no longer have to mail something in or go to the DMV.

MPS has been closing schools left and right under democrats for years, and I defy you to come up with an example of a school district (aside from those who undercut the governor by filing contact extensions in the 11th hour) who wound up losing money because of the cuts in state aid and new union rules. Hint: you won't find one.

Call shenanigans all you'd like. Honestly I'm not surprised that you don't know this kind of stuff anymore.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...tate-budget-w/

cliffs: fee increases are ~5 times more than the deductions in taxes

While you may not think having a DMV close to you is a big deal there is a lot of stuff outside of renewals that you have to go to the actual location to do. For someone living by one of the DMVs that closes they would then be looking at an hour drive to get to the one on the other side of where you live. That is no small matter for a lot of folks.

As for the schools I can't possibly understand your logic here. 900 million in cuts, 300 million in savings with new union rules, can't make up difference with property tax increases but there is no school with a lower budget? Really?

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

As for the schools I can't possibly understand your logic here. 900 million in cuts, 300 million in savings with new union rules, can't make up difference with property tax increases but there is no school with a lower budget? Really?

Again, please point me to the district that had their budget broken by the cuts in spending and inability to raise property taxes.

No?

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

For the past 25 years the Hudson district bought its health insurance from WEA Trust, a subsidiary of the state teachers union, Wisconsin Educators Association Counsel. Before Gov. Scott Walker's changes to collective bargaining powers, insurance benefits in the Hudson District were not subject to competitive bids. But this week, the school board voted unanimously to drop WEA Trust as their insurance provider. Superintendent Mary Bowen-Eggebraaten says the district is faced with more than $2 million cuts from the state and dropping WEA insurance will ease the pain, "Without the budget repair bill we would not have been able to address it without making significant additional reductions in our budget."

But Bowen-Eggebraaten says they still had to cover an additional $1 million in their budget by reducing operational costs and cutting some staff.

Forbes says despite the savings associated with changing their insurance providers it's still a difficult time for school boards, administrations and employees.

Even after wringing all the savings they could with the new rules and going with a new insurer they still lost money over all.

Feel free to explain where this magical 600 million is coming from so that you can ignore the fact that schools will lose money overall after the new budget rules.

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Call shenanigans all you'd like. Honestly I'm not surprised that you don't know this kind of stuff anymore.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...tate-budget-w/

cliffs: fee increases are ~5 times more than the deductions in taxes

Did you actually read this? What a joke.

1: College tuition increased BY THE COLLEGE because they were given more autonomy by the state.

2: This seems to be the only legit new "fee" on this list. However, you also need to understand that special interests have been trying for years in WI to shut down the payday loan / title loan type stores altogether. Perhaps this was a compromise? I can't defend it because I don't agree with it.

3: Cost of doing business increase. This is absolutely NO different than a private business needing to raise prices for a service they provide. I have zero problem with this.

4: Another example of the state raising the price of a service they provide.

When you say "fees" I'm thinking **** like Jim Doyle's "Wheel Fee" or Rental Car Fee where they just find any excuse to charge people for random **** and use the generated money for general spending. With the exception of the title loan thing, this is the government responsibly addressing very specific instances where they are providing a valuable service at an unsustainable price.

Gotta try harder here, Joe.

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Even after wringing all the savings they could with the new rules and going with a new insurer they still lost money over all.

Feel free to explain where this magical 600 million is coming from so that you can ignore the fact that schools will lose money overall after the new budget rules.

No, I want you to point to the district that is complaining. Don't throw these imaginary numbers at me. Find the new story of a school district making cuts or closing schools or going bankrupt because of the actions of Walker and the legislature. The key here is actual service cuts. Not eliminating a few redundant administrative positions.

With such a huge gap, I don't see how this could be hard for you.

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

MPS has been closing schools left and right under democrats for years, and I defy you to come up with an example of a school district (aside from those who undercut the governor by filing contact extensions in the 11th hour) who wound up losing money because of the cuts in state aid and new union rules. Hint: you won't find one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Even after wringing all the savings they could with the new rules and going with a new insurer they still lost money over all.

Feel free to explain where this magical 600 million is coming from so that you can ignore the fact that schools will lose money overall after the new budget rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

No, I want you to point to the district that is complaining. Don't throw these imaginary numbers at me. Find the new story of a school district making cuts or closing schools or going bankrupt because of the actions of Walker and the legislature. The key here is actual service cuts. Not eliminating a few redundant administrative positions.

With such a huge gap, I don't see how this could be hard for you.

Shift them goalposts all you want but there's your example of a school district that 'wound up losing money'.

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:23 PM

SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

Quote:

Hudson school district signs one-year contract extension before budget repair law goes into effect.

Quote:

The school district’s proposal calls for a one-year contract extension (The teacher’s proposal was for two years).

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

Did you actually read this? What a joke.

1: College tuition increased BY THE COLLEGE because they were given more autonomy by the state.

2: This seems to be the only legit new "fee" on this list. However, you also need to understand that special interests have been trying for years in WI to shut down the payday loan / title loan type stores altogether. Perhaps this was a compromise? I can't defend it because I don't agree with it.

3: Cost of doing business increase. This is absolutely NO different than a private business needing to raise prices for a service they provide. I have zero problem with this.

4: Another example of the state raising the price of a service they provide.

When you say "fees" I'm thinking **** like Jim Doyle's "Wheel Fee" or Rental Car Fee where they just find any excuse to charge people for random **** and use the generated money for general spending. With the exception of the title loan thing, this is the government responsibly addressing very specific instances where they are providing a valuable service at an unsustainable price.

Gotta try harder here, Joe.

Me: State raised fees overall.

Inso: I haven't seen a list of fee increases so they aren't real!

Me: Here's the list.

Inso: LOL those aren't Doyle's fees so I'll ignore them!

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:28 PM

Stop trying to hide behind the dictionary.

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

SURPRISE, SURPRISE!

I'm not sure if you were intentionally trying to be deceitful by changing 'makes an offer' to 'signs a deal' or if you just have no clue how bargaining actually works. Here's a tip: when one side makes a proposal it doesn't instantly become the new contract language.

UPDATE: Teachers Union Rejects School District's Counter Offer; Collective Bargaining Law Published

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:36 PM

Which was then immediately struck down by Judge Sumi.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...119059714.html

Again, Joe. You're going to have to do better than this.

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 04:40 PM

Do better than what? I gave you the example you asked for and you dismiss it as if it never happened. I'm not exactly sure how to proceed with any meaningful conversation with you if you just ignore the things you don't agree with.

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:43 PM

By the way, I noticed that you never gave a link for that first blurb about Hudson.

I was able to find an actual news story:

http://www.hudsonstarobserver.com/ev...icle/id/44071/

Quote:

District employees who qualify for insurance benefits will pay 8.7 per cent of the premium in 2011-12. That share will go up to 12.7 percent in 2012-13 and subsequent years. The annual premiums will be:

That one-year extension seems to be reason for their shortfall after all.

Don't worry, Joe. You're still my favorite unionista.

rjoefish · 08-15-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

By the way, I noticed that you never gave a link for that first blurb about Hudson.

I was able to find an actual news story:

http://www.hudsonstarobserver.com/ev...icle/id/44071/

That one-year extension seems to be reason for their shortfall after all.

Don't worry, Joe. You're still my favorite unionista.

Have you actually found an article that shows they agreed on a one year extension? I can't find it.

Inso0 · 08-15-2011, 04:51 PM

Nor can I. But the fact that they are paying 8.7% instead of 12.7% like almost everyone else in the state is a pretty big indicator.

The Sumi decision bought the unions 2 extra months of "negotiation" time. I suspect Hudson's union decided that a one year extension offer wasn't so bad after all after seeing the rest of the districts tell their unions to GTFO.