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Why Legalizing Drugs Is A Bad Idea Why Legalizing Drugs Is A Bad Idea

03-07-2012 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineedaride2
Depends on who you ask. Personally, I think that experimentation would almost have to increase some amount, but at the same time, if money saved on the drug war is put toward addiction treatment, long term addiction could very well decrease.

That's another thing that the article author didn't talk about. Very little effort and money is put toward treatment these days. Our idea of treatment right now is to throw someone in cells with lots of other people with psychological problems and say, "There ya go! Good luck !"
Homogeneity.
03-07-2012 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineedaride2
Depends on who you ask. Personally, I think that experimentation would almost have to increase some amount, but at the same time, if money saved on the drug war is put toward addiction treatment, long term addiction could very well decrease.

That's another thing that the article author didn't talk about. Very little effort and money is put toward treatment these days. Our idea of treatment right now is to throw someone in cells with lots of other people with psychological problems and say, "There ya go! Good luck !"

After checking in the Portugal laws, it seems drugs are really not legal, they just dramatically altered the enforcement technique, which I think is a good idea. Instead of jail, you go to treatment and I think this is the best way to go about it.
03-07-2012 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
One of the biggest motivating factors for immature people (teenagers) to experiment with drugs is because they are illegal.
Seriously? You'll have to show some work on this one.
03-07-2012 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
For awhile now, I've held that a law does not prevent anyone from doing anything. Thinking about legalization of drugs with this in mind, it creates a conflict, if not an outright contradiction. I assume when and if drugs are legal, addiction will increase as there are no longer barriers for honest people who want to experiment.

Is it a logical expectation that recreation drug use and addiction will increase if drugs are decriminalized?
On its face it seems highly likely that they would. How much of an increase there may be, I would imagine is highly debatable.
03-07-2012 , 12:53 PM
I support legalization (sort of), but I do think this guy makes a fair point or two. I think it's fair to say that with any substance (legal or illegal) it's going to cost you somewhere between $10-$50 to get good and f'd up. I think in order to greatly diminish petty junkie crime, this price range will need to go down to the $1-$5 range, and that's just never going to happen. Even if the government stayed out of it completely, corporations are going to realize on their own that they can charge artificially high prices for heroin and such because addicts would rob their own grandmothers to buy it.

Drug cartels would collapse pretty quickly. Without the huge profit margins of the illegal drug trade, they'd lack the funding to survive the onslaught of the Central/South American military's that are currently fighting them. The few guys at the top with all the money would disappear to live out their years comfortably and quietly and the rest of the guys would quickly fall into disorganization. A bunch of bandits rather than a formidable army. Violence would spike for a short time then quiet down considerably.

His argument that drug use would increase "exponentially" is just patently absurd. Like there are tons of people around that really want to get high but just can't seem to figure out how to make it happen. He also seems to have the idea that drugs in and of themselves ruin peoples lives. I think this is false, it's the drugs plus all the peripheral stuff involved in the illicit drug culture that ruin people's lives. Without the legal/social stigmas and the general atmosphere of degeneracy, many people could get f'd up every night wake up and go to work the next day. Just look at all the functioning alcoholics out there. And as far as drugs go, alcohol is one of the worst in terms of being able function normally and not act like an *******. I can go out in public in the middle of the day high on pretty much anything and most people around me would never know it, but if I was hammered it would take them all of 2 seconds to spot it.

He also fails to recognize that drug war does a ****-ton of damage to society all by itself. Even if we take it as a given that some things would get worse with legalized drugs, we have to weigh that against the benefits of not having the government fighting a f'ing war against ~10% of the population.

My solution is totally legalize marijuana and do away prescriptions for any medically useful drugs that aren't in short supply. Maybe make people listen to a pharmacist go over a 3 minute spiel about X drug before they can buy it and keep some sort of national computer database to watch for people who might be buying deadly combos. As for the other drugs, just do nothing. No legalization, but no law enforcement either. This will drive prices down as it takes all of the risk out of the supply side. Joe the corn farmer will set aside some acreage for coca and poppies in order to double his income. It'll get processed in warehouses all over the country and would end up being dirt cheap on the street. Violent foreign drug cartels would be forced to compete with thousands of domestic mom and pop operations every one of which would be capable of getting huge weight all the way from the soil to the streets. They'd have no chance.
03-07-2012 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
Seriously? You'll have to show some work on this one.
It is known as the "forbidden fruit hypothesis". There is a lot of research in regards to this hypothesis and its impact on Sex, Alcohol, and Cigarettes, but there is admittedly less published research on drug use.

I believe this topic is covered in: 2009 Utah L. Rev. 105 (2009)
Predicting the Future: A Bad Reason to Criminalize Drug Use; Husak, Douglas

I am unable to access the whole thing though without paying for it.

Satisfied?
03-07-2012 , 01:12 PM
Watch " Scarface " and pay attention, Drugs are illegal because they make a few people very rich and powerfull ( Mob, politicians, bankers, lawyers,crooked cops) and these people want it to stay that way. Did Lucky Luciano want booze legal? Drugs will never be legal, there's just too much money to be made by the "usual suspects" keeping the laws as they are.
03-07-2012 , 01:35 PM
Some A+ trolling in this article, well done.

As a counterpoint to his marijuana-saps-motivation arguments, I present Hal Incandenza. Also myself. I get productive as hell after smoking a bit.
03-07-2012 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit
Watch " Scarface " and pay attention, Drugs are illegal because they make a few people very rich and powerfull ( Mob, politicians, bankers, lawyers,crooked cops)
Not just crooked cops.
03-07-2012 , 01:56 PM
Did you really post an entire article with no link?
03-07-2012 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckbomb
Some A+ trolling in this article, well done.

As a counterpoint to his marijuana-saps-motivation arguments, I present Hal Incandenza. Also myself. I get productive as hell after smoking a bit.
You do not think there is a issue when you have to use a chemical to get motivated? Not that I oppose you doing what you have to do or am ignorant of the fact that, in some cases, drugs increase the quality of life. However, in many cases, drug use is a symptom of an underlying problem which leads to self medication then addiction. This highlights the need for treatment in many cases to identify these issue and provide the education and therapy for effective utilization of drugs and other recovery tools that in most cases probably would lead to less drug use.

I'm not sure where I stand on the legalization of drugs, however, I'm convinced treatment should be paramount with any solution, which seems to go ignored in most political discussions.
03-07-2012 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Hal Incandenza
Probably not the best example considering what happened to his creator.
03-07-2012 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
I am, for one..
Me too.
03-07-2012 , 02:29 PM
Ted Belling should write less.
03-07-2012 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FleeingFish
You do not think there is a issue when you have to use a chemical to get motivated? Not that I oppose you doing what you have to do or am ignorant of the fact that, in some cases, drugs increase the quality of life. However, in many cases, drug use is a symptom of an underlying problem which leads to self medication then addiction. This highlights the need for treatment in many cases to identify these issue and provide the education and therapy for effective utilization of drugs and other recovery tools that in most cases probably would lead to less drug use.

I'm not sure where I stand on the legalization of drugs, however, I'm convinced treatment should be paramount with any solution, which seems to go ignored in most political discussions.
Uh what? The occasional bong rip just makes me more willing to get stuff done. It's not the only thing that motivates and I don't rely on it by any means.

Though coffee is a different story. I would start cracking skulls if I had to give that **** up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineedaride2
Probably not the best example considering what happened to his creator.
I'd take DFW's brain in an instant, even if it meant I would eventually collapse under the weight of my own pretension.
03-07-2012 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckbomb
Uh what? The occasional bong rip just makes me more willing to get stuff done.
Every time I see your name now my brain is going to see it as Chuckbong...tyvm.

.
03-07-2012 , 05:13 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/18/us...-and-jews.html

Read this earlier:

Quote:
The diaries of H. R. Haldeman, President Richard M. Nixon's chief of staff until the Watergate scandal prompted Mr. Nixon to dismiss him, include references to Mr. Nixon's believing that there was "total Jewish domination of the media" and that "the whole problem is really the blacks."

"The Haldeman Diaries," being published today by G. P. Putnam's Sons, are drawn from audio recordings and Mr. Haldeman's daily diary entries.

In one entry, Mr. Haldeman, referring to the President as "P," said: "P emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks. The key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to. Pointed out that there has never in history been an adequate black nation, and they are the only race of which this is true. Says Africa is hopeless. The worst there is Liberia, which we built."

Interesting, allegedly coming from the man that created the War on Drugs.
03-07-2012 , 05:22 PM
Turned on the news today, 52% of all arrests are "marijuana arrests." Pretty ridiculous. Not a partaker myself, but that's such a huge waste of time and resources.
03-07-2012 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineedaride2
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/18/us...-and-jews.html

Read this earlier:




Interesting, allegedly coming from the man that created the War on Drugs.
Wow. Although, it does not appear they were too bright to develop such a sinister plan.
03-07-2012 , 05:46 PM
Nixon hated non white straight males...it's not much of a shocker.

Last edited by krmont22; 03-07-2012 at 05:46 PM. Reason: forgot that he hates the ***** types from SF
03-07-2012 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ
I am, for one..
if all drugs are legalized like 50% of cops would lose their jobs. that's a good thing?
03-07-2012 , 05:56 PM
only a slave can be denied the choice of what to put into his body
03-07-2012 , 06:06 PM
People running prisons would lose jobs, too. Drugs are great for the economy.
03-07-2012 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul McSwizzle
2. the idea that gov would mismanage it so poorly that ppl would continue to buy from drug dealers is laughable. if you can buy pot at the store, how much cheaper would it have to be for you to buy it from some sketch guy? are drug dealers really going to be able to compete with big pharma?
I live in CA and it seems the people i know who smoke mj love love love being able to buy it from more legit pot shops with lots of choices and high quality instead of loser dealers.
03-07-2012 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself
if all drugs are legalized like 50% of cops would lose their jobs. that's a good thing?
This is untrue.

Narcotics divisions do not make up close to 50% of police officers in any jurisdiction I've seen, and even if they did they have skills such as undercover experience and surveillance skills that could be converted to numerous other types of investigations.

Child Predator stings come to mind, as they are blown sometimes by officers inexperienced with UC work.

      
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