A lot of people don't think stealing from the rich just because they're rich is okay.

(of course, they probably steal a ton from work)

to clarify:
u express amazement at 50-70% tax rate on the highest of earners.

i ask if u are aware of historical tax rates in US.

u say they're quite high, but not 70%. then say they were at one point 90%

that's what doesn't compute.

Yep, anyone who disagrees with you must obviously be either selfish or stupid. That attitude will get you places.

It's around 30 or 40 percent I believe.

i'm trying to find some data. census website is awful.

wiki page only has data from 2003
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States



so even if u say that EVERYONE making >75k year is voting republican that's ~25%. in order for them to win elections, as they constantly do, they must be drawing significant support from poor people--people whose best interest do not lie in voting for the republican party.

My company has internal research which I assume is close, but not exact, to actual voter registration (cause it's via online research), but it shows those with sub-50K and 50K+ HH income are near equally likely to be registered as Democrats, while the higher income bracket is signficantly more likely than the lower to be registered I or R, while the lower income bracket is significantly more likely to not be registered at all.

Thanks for the data. I agree that single issue voters like pro lifers don't vote there pocket books. Not sure I can draw a lot of conclusions from the above data. In 2008 57 percent of eligible citizens voted so I could get pretty strong showing for the R's with just the over $75K crowd.
If I find some better data I will post and do appreciate your efforts

This was classic,

Mr. Letterman, who introduced President Clinton as, “maybe something we’ll never see again—a two term Democrat,”

More so coming from Letterman, lol.

There is exit polling data on income and how people vote:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

Scrolling down we see under votes by income 2008:

INCOME:

<15k voted D by +48% (73-25)

15k< x <30k voted D by +23% (60-37)

30k< x < 50k voted D by +12% (55-43)

50k and upwards was a virtual coinflip between the 5 income brackets.

Even in a R quasi landslide year like 2010, in the House exit polls, the 2 lowest tranches (the under 50k group) voted D, although not as strongly.

Thanks Swing!

The attitudes in America are different than in the EU. I the EU, you guys have decided it is preferable to sacrifice a substantial bit of your liberty (50-70% of your income) to assure a 2 bedroom flat and "free" healthcare for all whether they pull their load or not.

In America, the majority still believes that individuals do better surrendering as little as possible to the government and accepting a social safety net , rather than a social safety recliner.

People in the <30k brackets do vote for the redistributionists by the majority, but the vast middle classes, if they cannot become millionaires, want their kids to have a better chance of getting there.

This is why a guy like Cain is resonating with the voters. He's a guy that had to live through some of the worst racial epithets growing up in Georgia in the 1950's, yet armed with only 2 parents and his own innate talents dragged himself up the ladder to the top.

That is why he is a danger to the Cornel Wests and Harry Bellafontes and Jessee Jacksons of the world and he must be ridiculed and stomped out before his message grows.

To understand the differences between Europeans and Americans all you need to do is look at soccer and football, the national games. In soccer, you spend 80% of the game squaring the ball off from side to side in midfield waiting for an advantage to strike and then when you get tackled you lay writhing on the ground until your opponent gets booked and then you jump up and sprint away at a thousand miles per hour. In football the object is to physically beat your opponent into submission. Outsmarting with trickery is good, but putting a beat down on him is better.

Different places.... different philosophies.

lolol please show me these vast middle classes.

I lol'd


Good post all around though. EU doesn't understand US "selfishness". US doesn't understand EU "laziness".

Any post that mentions a national culture of Europe is not close to the "good post" area.

hahahaha

I was exaggerating although only slightly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:In...By_Country.svg

I am under impression that most R voters vote R because of ideological reasons (as someone mentioned: Christianity, guns, abortion etc.) and they do so against their own interest.

You know it's not stealing right ? You just have to pick the rules to govern society which maximize happiness, well being, health etc. high taxation for rich and low on middle/low class seems to do the trick in many modern countries.

Anywya as I don't live in America and part of my family which does is doing quite well I would love to see some alternative economic plan implemented (hello 9-9-9) maybe people would wake up and realize cutting spending and taxes across the board won't do **** for economy.

I don't know if this escaped people or not but,

http://www.taxbrackets2011.com/

Look at all the people who have gotten rich in the last century and tell me what % of them had rich people as their primary customer. A strong middle class and the poor with at least a little spending money is a much more fertile environment.

This, seriously. If USA#1 is very diverse, Eurotardia is more so. You can probably use some veeeery general characteristics to describe common properties. I wouldn't.

Yes but Europe is extremely homogeneous within each country. Except for where they aren't. And ... something something ... therefore obviously WE CAN'T DO ANY OF THE GOOD STUFF THEY DO FOR THEIR CITIZENS. We just can't, we suck, we don't have the money or the skill to take care of anyone. Sorry.

But other than that, America - **** Yeah!

Americans on the whole are mindbogglingly stupid, and are easily duped by a well-funded PR machine into cutting taxes on the wealthiest, slashing public institutions, and marching off to liberate oil-rich nations.

Sounds like a lot of people have already conceded the election; so who's the next President?

You would have to define middle class for me first. A a couple that is made of a garbage man or a cop in NYC and a school principal both on the job for 25 years middle class people? Or are the the hated rich? couples or individuals? If you are living in Kingman , AZ or across the street from Zabar's, the definitions are quite different.

GG,

I was alluding to the notion (quite universal in the EU) of social democracies where high rates of taxation are the price for a nice nanny state.

Base income tax in Germany for comparison:
14% (anything below 8004 Euro is taxfree) - 45% (250.731 Euro+)
The second highest class, 42% starts at 52.882 Euros
Obviously there's a bazillion of extra stuff

On top of that there's 19% sales tax (7% for some stuff that is concidered essential)
So if you assume an average of 13% that means the highest total of income+sales tax is 52.15% and that's not including a bunch of other taxes and stuff

I pay about 500 Euro in private medical insurance/month (no health conditions at all). If I wouldn't pay that I'd get fined 2.2k iirc