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Old 02-23-2012, 06:17 AM   #1
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When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

I don't have a long, detailed first post for this one (drunk at 4:17am ldo), but I was wondering what peoples' thoughts are when it comes to super powers intefering in other countries' affairs. Are we morally obliged to intervene in countries like Syria and Libya where dictators are killing (or have killed) thousands of civilians? What guidelines should be considered to intervene militarily? Should we mind our business and let people in such countries fight for themselves or should we provide some kind of support?
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:28 AM   #2
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

The Christian Just War Theory lays out in sufficient detail what constitutes casus belli.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:30 AM   #3
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Are there hot chicks involved?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:35 AM   #4
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Is there some type of natural resource involved? Oil , preferably, then yes. You just label them the axis of evil , or a dictator, or accuse them of building bombs that you have a thousand of , or say for sure there was yellowcake uranium , and the people will back an invasion.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:36 AM   #5
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

the people of course, i mean congress and the US president , LDO .
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:49 PM   #6
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Do you want to know when should we or when do we?

I think we should attack other countries if they attack us.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:07 PM   #7
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Do they have oil?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:28 PM   #8
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Based on my experience playing turn-based strategy games, the answer is "The sooner the better."
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:40 PM   #9
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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Based on my experience playing turn-based strategy games, the answer is "The sooner the better."

a game of world domination being played by two guys who can barely run their own lives imo
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:48 PM   #10
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

when we believe there is a clear and present danger to the united states. be it terror, economical, or even an epidemic.

im sure i could come up with more.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:53 PM   #11
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

So you support economical wars? Would you support just invading countries and looting them for goods?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:58 PM   #12
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

well the question was interfere militarily. not invade. no i dont support going in and looting for goods. but for example if iran tried to close the straight like they threaten to then yes we need to bomb them and open it back up.

if a country tries to do something to tank our economy. then yes do what we have to to thwart it.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #13
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

So you would agree that our actions and sanction would be reason for Iran to attack us?
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:11 PM   #14
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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Do they have oil?
Forgot to ask if they were brown. Are they brown?
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:15 PM   #15
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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So you would agree that our actions and sanction would be reason for Iran to attack us?
be more specific please.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:18 PM   #16
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

We are implementing sanctions that will try to cripple Iran's economy. You said if someone tried to tank our economy, it would justify attacking them. Therefore, I am assuming that you agree that Iran has a right to attack us.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:20 PM   #17
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

sure bring it on i would love for them to. get their army navy and air force and lets go.
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:23 PM   #18
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

So do you think the USA is trying to instigate a war with Iran?
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:46 PM   #19
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

R2P is more or less correct in spirit
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Old 02-23-2012, 10:54 PM   #20
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Never, obv. I mean, who are we to say, really, that gassing millions of Jews is so bad?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:19 PM   #21
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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Never, obv. I mean, who are we to say, really, that gassing millions of Jews is so bad?
That's actually an interesting tangent for this thread. There was information of the German atrocities leaked prior to Pearl Harbour. Then even after, the European Theater of operations was not about the atrocities, but a general war footing. Until the physical evidence was found it was closer to innocent until proven guilty. Decades later it culminated with Bush et al and their "evidence". The circle became complete with presumed guilt.

but I took a wrong turn for serious from a sarcastic post
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:38 PM   #22
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Oil or if their dictator looks at you funny
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:51 PM   #23
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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The Christian Just War Theory lays out in sufficient detail what constitutes casus belli.
I had never heard of that, thanks. I can't recall the last time we got involved in a conflict based on those guidelines. The only possible exception might be Somalia IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Based on my experience playing turn-based strategy games, the answer is "The sooner the better."
lol'd, I want to play a game of Civ4 now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Never, obv. I mean, who are we to say, really, that gassing millions of Jews is so bad?
Ignoring the sarcasm, and in light of cres' post, what guidelines for intervention would you consider before taking action? Let's assume there's absolutely zero resources to take from the country you're intervening in and the people in power are no threat to you at all (and by you, I mean your country)

Would any of you say that aiding the Contras in Nicaragua was a good idea, ignoring the fact that it was the Carter administration that let the communists take down Somoza's dictatorship (which we supported for decades before Carter)? Were we right to intervene in Libya? Are we morally obliged to intervene in Syria?

Libertarianism (cause I know there's a lot of RP supporters here), as I understand it, takes a non-interventionist approach to these issues, but is it okay to let governments massacre their civilians at will? When is it time to take action? How many lives have to be lost?

What would happen if (hypothetically ldo) people in the States started a revolution, would any country intervene and which side would they support if the US military started massacring armed "rebels"? What if the Brits started their own revolution if they got sick of having a monarchy, what would our country do, or rather, what should it do?

By the way, I'm not sure how important distinguishing between intervening and interfering is. I'm going to assume interfering is not welcomed by the other country.

Last edited by ohaithar; 02-24-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:09 PM   #24
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

If the war would somehow lead to forgiveness of my student loan debt, my ears would be open.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:13 PM   #25
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

I recommend playing a few hundred games of Risk to find your answer.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:22 PM   #26
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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I recommend playing a few hundred games of Risk to find your answer.
A nation that did that would never be bogged down in two land wars in Asia.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:43 PM   #27
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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Originally Posted by ohaithar View Post
I don't have a long, detailed first post for this one (drunk at 4:17am ldo), but I was wondering what peoples' thoughts are when it comes to super powers intefering in other countries' affairs. Are we morally obliged to intervene in countries like Syria and Libya where dictators are killing (or have killed) thousands of civilians? What guidelines should be considered to intervene militarily? Should we mind our business and let people in such countries fight for themselves or should we provide some kind of support?
I'm fine conceptually with intervening to protect civilians, but I doubt that either Syria or Libya threatened/threaten enough civilian deaths to make it likely that an attack would reduce the ultimate number of dead civilians.

The Kosovo bombing campaign was plausibly justifiable.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #28
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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So do you think the USA is trying to instigate a war with Iran?
no i dont.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:05 PM   #29
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

But you would agree that trying to cripple their economy through trade embargos is an act of war?
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:20 PM   #30
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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But you would agree that trying to cripple their economy through trade embargos is an act of war?
"Act of War" is a political term up for debate. International law refers to acts of aggression which do not include non violent sanctions.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:21 PM   #31
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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But you would agree that trying to cripple their economy through trade embargos is an act of war?
too much logic for him KR
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:56 PM   #32
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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But you would agree that trying to cripple their economy through trade embargos is an act of war?
no kermit im talking about them running a military blockade that keeps our trading partners from being able to trade with us.

or some type of it attack/virus.

agriculture terrorism (im not sure if this is the correct term)

im sure there are a few other things.

and just because we refuse to do business with them its not an act of war.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:05 PM   #33
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

What about saying anyone else who does business with them is punished as well?
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #34
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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What about saying anyone else who does business with them is punished as well?
By not doing business with them as well?
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:10 PM   #35
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

Also, stopping aid. Obviously, we can stop doing business with whoever we want. I just think when we are trying to get as much of the world as possible to hurt the Iranian economy, while we have them completely surrounded with military bases, I do see why they would feel threatened and provoked.
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:08 PM   #36
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

theve been naughty for a long time. and even the un, which i dont support called for them as well.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:31 PM   #37
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

What have they done?
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #38
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

oh i dont know hostage crisis, state sponsored terrorism lots of stuff. they are the enemy.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:00 PM   #39
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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theve been naughty for a long time. and even the un, which i dont support called for them as well.
Surely, it has nothing to do with the fact that we've been messing up their country since the 50's.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:57 PM   #40
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

nope not us. soviets and brits
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:15 PM   #41
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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nope not us. soviets and brits
i'm confused, are you trolling or just profoundly ignorant?
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:30 PM   #42
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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i'm confused, are you trolling or just profoundly ignorant?
There is *some* truth to his statement. The actual meddling by the British pissed off the Iranians more than the actual meddling by the US.

But that was 40 years ago.
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:42 PM   #43
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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Never, obv. I mean, who are we to say, really, that gassing millions of Jews is so bad?
When did we go to war to save the jews?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-6c2...eature=related
(2:00 mark where one of stalin's higher ups told Roosevelt he was a Jew and asked him to help stop the atrocities and Roosevelt said he wasn't here for that)
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:12 AM   #44
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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i'm confused, are you trolling or just profoundly ignorant?
yes the first shaw pahlavi was put in office by the brits and soviets.

then later as he backed out of treaties and broke business contracts the brits and soviets mostly put his son in office in his place.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:07 PM   #45
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

So who are we going to put in office? er I mean let the people democratically elect.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:25 PM   #46
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

i dont care whos in there as long as they are relativly sane.
Most ppl would agree that those in power now need to go.
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:15 PM   #47
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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Never, obv. I mean, who are we to say, really, that gassing millions of Jews is so bad?
Obviously everyone agrees that gassing Jews is very, very bad. But that doesn't imply that the USA (or any country) should go to war to stop it.
If people want to voluntarily band together to stop atrocities, I'm all for it. But don't force others to participate.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:30 PM   #48
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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i dont care whos in there as long as they are relativly sane.
Most ppl would agree that those in power now need to go.
Most people? Who? When was this poll done? How many Iranians have you spoken to?
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:57 PM   #49
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

krmott, come on. cant people on this site use common sense. do you not think the people running the iranian gov are bad people?

all the statements about israel, and the holocaust? they are islamists. and they are a danger.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #50
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Re: When should we interfere militarily in other countries?

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krmott, come on. cant people on this site use common sense. do you not think the people running the iranian gov are bad people?

all the statements about israel, and the holocaust? they are islamists. and they are a danger.
A danger to who? We have them surrounded with military bases, and they're no match for Israel's military, let alone their nuke arsenal.
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