Half-truth. The underlying reason for their efforts was/is to not be under ANY influence of western interest much less any government outside one of which that has strict Islamic law. Extremist are unable topple any Middle Eastern countries (i.e. Saudi Arabia) that has the support of US/Western interest, not with out some drastic shift in public opinion against US influence (i.e. the purchase of oil form Middle Easter countries specifically) in such countries. Why is this important? Extremist want to unite the Middle East under one government, one of which of strict Islamic Law that has zero influence from the west, whether economic or political.


As someone has already pointed out, stark difference between the two are prevalent in the comparisons. Once more, motives are different. We are talking about an insurgency, in the case of US action against Britain, to a "random" group of terrorist/extremist who feel they speak for the entire conglomerate of sovereign middle eastern countries.

(sorry for interjecting someone else comments into your post, but it fits so well)

I think you have underestimated my knowledge base on this issue. I pointed to the F.A.S report to counter your "chain mail" argument. While I understand the issue is much more complex, I think your understanding of the situation is quite limiting when you disputed my contempt for your "they just want us to go home" generalization.


No sovereign country in the middle east has decided to attack us for our policies in the middle east, except for Iran, indirectly. In case you are confused, Islamic Extremism is the culprit for majority of the violence in the middle eastern countries that has US troops. In other words, people who conform to the ideology of the "random terrorist" are the one carrying out the violence.

Are you of the opinion that sovereign nations are attacking the US military in order for us to vacate their land? If not, who is? Could it be extremist who follow the ideology of those "random" terrorist and not the voice of sovereign Middle Eastern countries?

Define they please.

I am talking about 9/11. No sovereign nation in the middle east has attacked the united states.

So would you agree that when some here parrot these "random" extremist/terrorist objection (via violence and rhetoric) to US influence in the Middle East is akin to the spread of propaganda of a non-sovereign entity (or "Random" terrorist/extremist) that purportedly does not speak for sovereign Middle Eastern countries?

again you guys keep talking about 9/11. may i ask how old you are krm? this is not meant as an insult but for me to better understand your experience with this subject.

cres may i ask your age as well.

this subject and these matters go way beyond 9/11. 9/11 was just the final straw.

I am 25. I would be more than pleased if you could show me where a Middle Eastern nation attacked the United States.

While this is true, significant amount of information was produced that gives great insight to those who had/have no clue.

Why? Who said they have? I think you are missing the point I'm making of which you accentuated very well with your "random" comment, indirectly of course.

You discredited the F.A.S report by presuming the terrorist/extremist were "random" and they did not speak for sovereign middle eastern countries. Yet, when speaking on this forum, a segment of the population repeats the same rhetoric these same purportedly "random" non-sovereign extremist/terrorist exude and claim it speaks for the sovereign Middle Eastern nations and their citizens.

FleeingFish, your posts are nearly unreadable due to awful grammar.

Yeah, I know. Talk about education in this country

FF,

I am not even talking to you. I don't even know the FAS report is.

Can you elaborate on this then as I'm not sure what your point is?

its not about middle eastern countries attacking the us. well technically iran has and so has lybia.

its about the fact that we sat around like pacifist pussies from 1970 till 9/11 for the most part. see this stuff didnt start with 9/11 its been going on forever. and it didnt start with us being asked to help with gulf1. they also dont just attack us. they are against any western influence of any kind. that can be business or entertainment everything. and they attack muslim moderate countries as well.

Umm...how are these claims even remotely true?

well when they finance an attack and then use their own intelligence operatives to run it. then smuggle the operatives thru their embassy to another country to blow up our embassy.

so they planned it, paid for it, provided the training, and provided the weapons etc.

also lybia and iran has attacked us military assets when we were not engaged in hostilities with them.

the takeover of the us embassy in tehran can pseudo count. because the attack did not occur by the reigning regime but by the soon to be regime.

You give no credit to multiple reports of Iranian facilitation of violence against US forces in Iraq?

A small group of random terrorists from random countries flew airplanes into buildings on 9/11, and the USA uses that as an "act of war" to invade and attack sovereign nations in the middle east.

I would love some cites for these attacks on the USA by middle eastern nations.

Was this before or after the Taliban refused to hand over the culprits/instigators of the attack(s) and immediately stop sponsoring/facilitating international terrorism that was, obviously, a threat to US interest?

Your use of "random", once again, is ironic comedy at its best. These "random" people are at the crux of the "we just want them to go home" argument.

Besides that, nothing about the terrorist who flew planes into our buildings were random. It was not some group of people from "random" countries who on a whim decided to hijack a plane and turn it into a missile to propagate some thrown together ideology, quite contrary actually. Your ignorance on the attacks is astounding. You should stop making assumptions and do a little homework to learn about the things you speak of. This was a sophisticated and elaborate plot hatched from a group of people who follow a specific ideology.. No matter your opinion on Afghanistan or Iraq or the Middle East in general, if you do not know the facts, your opinion is grossly irrelevant much less embarrassing. The more you defend your ignorance the stupider you look.

you are too young to remember all the attacks in europe in the 70's and 80's. all the hijackings. seeing americans on planes executed and dumped out on the tarmac on the news. the hostage crisis. munich.

you also forget the line of death. all of the embassy bombings going way back. a bombing of an embassy is an attack on sovereign soil krm

all the 'they' in your post equal the USA in matters of other sovereign nations. Which is the heart of the matter (imo), the US performs activities they inturn claim as hostile by anyone else who acts the same. This has been the case since ww2 was deemed have been complete.

btw, I am 47, not someone who only read about the 70's and 80's in the 00's. I began to travel the world at the ripe old age of 13 with my first trip to Europe. Managed to see a few things, and learn perspectives, not framed in any patriotic fashion. Americans have a warped sense of accomplishment to all things they intercede in, be it political or business affairs. Even geographically most Americans have no idea of what the globe looks like, modern day flat world thinkers for the most part.

Eagerly awaiting any proof to back up your claims. If I am so ignorant and the facts are so obvious, you all should have no problem refuting me easily.

line of death krm hows that for ya?

So they declared their gulf sovereign waters. We sent aircraft carriers into it in response. They flew aircraft over our carriers, and we shot down two of their aircraft.

no they fired on our ships and planes multiple times. there were 73,80,81,86. after all that he decided to go after pan am 103 then after reagan bombed his tent he calmed down a little then again got frisky in 89

So did any of our ships, planes, soldiers, etc get hit? Is it ok for Iran to send aircraft carriers into the gulf of mexico?