Tonight I attended a speaking event at a well known College(speaking event was not in connection with the school tho, it was ran by one of the schools clubs) which featured Eva Bartlett, a non Muslim "human rights and Justice activist" and member of the International Solidarity movement who is on some sort of speaking tour.

Her website is www.ingaza.worldpress.com.

This was my first time attending this type of event and apparently in the past both the Israel and Palestine supporters have gotten overtly emotional in Palestine/Israel speaking events.

The speaker, Eva Bartlett, had nothing bad to say about Palestine but at the same time, the speaker has traveled to Gaza numerous times and has been involved with non violent protest groups who were shot at by the IDF. Many harrowing videos were shown at the speaking event, they were all of Palestinians getting injured or killed This women witnessed folks being injured by the IDF along with visiting numerous Palestinians in the hospital. Bartlett brought up the point that in 2002, 10% of Palestinians received food from independent charity sources(not Gaza), Bartlett claimed this number is presently 80%.



During the Q and A session I noted some polarized views from some of the folks in attendance, some of the questions were very Pro Israel, some very Pro Palestine.

Then it came to me,

Knowing that the speaker was in Gaza numerous times and a witness to violence against unarmed Palestinians, I knew I had to word my question carefully. So I brought up the points that Amnesty International has recently accused the IDF of war crimes including killing 45 in the west bank between 2011-2013, I then brought up the point that the Al Aqsa Martyers(Palestine side) brigade has been responsible for suicide bombings in the past against civilians up to 2008.

Bartletts response to the suicide bombings was that she is not a person whos home is in Gaza, and that she would not know how to react to the injustices the Palestinians face.

I then said any civilian death on either side is inappropriate and goes against the values of Islam/Judaism. The speaker then said that she is not in a position to condone/not condone the suicide bombing, this surprised me.

In response to my amnesty international point, Bartlett brought fourth more detailed statistics of Palestinians getting killed/injured by the IDF. Bartlett also blamed the USA for its aggressive polices and at this point was finished addressing my first set of questions/comments.

I then had the chance to ask the final question of the night, knowing that Bartlett believes the media is distorting the situation in Gaza...

I told Bartlett that their are many cases of Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims working together in Israel/Palestine. As a side note I even brought up the groups Iran loves Israel, Israel loves Iran, just to get this information out as its not given attention from popular media outlets. In any event I asked the speaker why is it that the media from Israel/Palestine doesn't show the factual cases of Jews and Muslims working together....

Bartletts response was that my point was good and the media should show more cases of Jews and Muslims working together in Palestine or Israel. But at the same time Bartlett claimed my view was whitewashing what was happening to the Palestinians. This surprised me because I thought I had gone out of my way to be as fair as possible along with the fact I brought up real instances of civilian deaths on both sides.

My final thoughts were that Bartlett did a good job with her speech/presentation but I would have liked Bartlett to acknowledge that many good Israeli Jews exist, she did but also claimed this view whitewashes what is happening in Gaza.

To be fair, I have noticed some Pro Israel Speakers don't really acknowledge that good Palestinians exist, nor do some folks acknowledge the dire situation that some Palestinians do face.

Thoughts?

After further research and in an incredible turn of events, the group who ran the speaking event was The Muslim Student Association, has been under police surveillance since 2012.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nj-musli...outine-spying/

(CBS News) A Muslim legal rights group is going to federal court Wednesday in New Jersey, claiming New York City's police department has violated the civil rights of innocent Muslims.

Earlier this year, the NYPD was criticized for a surveillance program targeting universities and mosques in several states.

Wish I had known this before going...

Is this legal?



http://www.onislam.net/english/news/...s-muslims.html


NEW YORK – A decision by a New Jersey federal judge to dismiss US Muslims lawsuit against New York Police department surveillance has revived bad memories of the Muslim community in Potsdam, New York, complaining about losing their rights in their countries.

“I mean, I don’t really understand the rationale for coming here, out of all places,” Clarkson University junior Saira Bakshi told North Country Public Radio.

According to an Associated Press report in 2012, NYPD investigated mosques and entire ethnic communities as well as Muslim student associations in more than 15 universities.

Though Saira was not in Potsdam in 2012, she was a member of the Muslim Students’ Association at Rutgers University in New Jersey.

“It’s about 3,000 students, which is like the size of Clarkson itself,” she said.

“So, it was a very active group, but I find it so strange that they would think it was any kind of hot spot for radical political movements or planning, because, it was mainly just to preserve our identity as American Muslims.”

Wow is all I can say. Also can the mods change the thread title to Muslim Students Association under (allegedly) police surveillance?

Everybody is under some kind of survelliance in USA. If you don't like it move, because nothing will change in USA and people will do nothing about it, because they are to meek and scared of their own government and police.

FWIW I'm taking this quite seriously, I feel like (now that I know about the history of the MSA) that conference I went to was bugged. In any event Take a look at my avatar I agree with the USA doing whatever is needed to keep the USA safe.

Was this a public meeting? If so, all the police have to do to surveil it is to turn up. No 'bugging' necessary.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...tical-dissent/

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...rters-exposed/

^This (fyp)



Something new everyday:
CIA spied on congressional investigators looking into CIA torture programs.

the event was public

Not sure why OP won't mention the uni. He gave enough info to make it a google search away from being found.

If that is her qualification for being able to comment on something ,did she tell you how long she lived in Israel for given that she does feel qualified to comment on their actions.

University at Buffalo, I figured it would be on the speakers website


The speaker was in Gaza for a few weeks and had video footage of Palestinian farmers being shot at (allegedly) 500 meters from the Israeli border. But as I stated in the OP the speaker didn't have a bad thing to say about the suicide bombings carried out by Hamas in Israel which took place until 2008. While the Palestine side has suffered far more casualties but I expected at least some mention of the Israeli casualties by the speaker.

So how does this statement make any sense at all?

I understand what your saying, I was more or less showing the fact that the NYPD has been accused of monitoring community activities that they probably shouldn't be taking a part in(unless there is justification)


According to an Associated Press report in 2012, NYPD investigated mosques and entire ethnic communities as well as Muslim student associations in more than 15 universities.


But then there is the following, which I found to be very interesting,



There has also been cases of what appears to be entrapment, I.E, FBI officers posing as Muslim extremists (the FBI has targeted poor Immigrants from the middle east with this entrapment)

Days before his arrest in Pittsburgh last month, Khalifa Ali al-Akili posted a remarkable message on his Facebook page: A mysterious man who spoke often of jihad had tried to interest Akili in buying a gun, then later introduced him to a second man, whom Akili was assured was “all about the struggle.”



“I had a feeling that I had just played out a part in some Hollywood movie where I had just been introduced to the leader of a ‘terrorist’ sleeper cell,” Akili wrote.

When he googled a phone number provided by the second man, it turned out to be to Shahed Hussain, one of the FBI’s most prolific and controversial informants for terrorism cases. Soon the sting was off; Akili was subsequently arrested on gun — not terrorism — charges, which he has denied.

It was a rare miss for Hussain, 55, who has played a wealthy, dapper member of a Pakistani terrorist group in several FBI operations over nearly a decade.

This role has inflamed Muslim and civil rights activists, who describe Hussain as an “agent provocateur,” and prompted harsh comments from the presiding judge in a 2010 case, who questioned his honesty and the aggressiveness of the FBI’s tactics.

Is this legal? Or better yet is this the right way to go about identifying criminals? Its certainly a tough situation IMO

“It almost seems like the government is creating a theatrical event that produces more fear in the community,” said Michael German, a senior policy counsel at the American Civil Liberties Union and a former FBI agent who worked undercover.

http://federalcrimesblog.com/tag/entrapment/

Sorry to rain on your little parade, but lets look at Ms. Bartlett a little more closely.

In addition to having writing credits at Palestinian propaganda site Electronic Intifada and Canadian left-wing activist news site rabble.ca, Ms. Bartlett is a member of the International Solidarity Movement.

Quite the "progressive" resume. As an aside, even her twitter is branded as @EvaBartlettGaza and is on a speaking tour, so its probably safe to assume she is a professional Palestinian activist. In case you thought she was going to say anything other than official Palestinian propaganda.

The ISM pledges, as a principle, that it is:
Of course it goes on to discuss all sorts of nonsense about big bad Israel's apartheid, international law, etc. etc. without in any way defining those words or discussing the law itself.

But let's focus on the "non-violence".

The ISM is known for being active right in the middle of combat zones and callin suicide bombers "freedom fighters":
More than one ISM member has been killed while "protecting" Palestinians - both terrorist and civilian .

Of course, the ISM's co-founder was quoted in the Washington Post as saying:
Simply chilling.

Other co-founders, Adam Shapiro and Huweida Arraf, wrote in 2002:
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer quoted ISM activist Susan Barclay as saying that she:
They were also caught harbouring Islamic Jihad terrorist Shadi Sukiya.

David Hupper, another ISM activist, was convicted of aiding Hamas financially.

Another ISM activist in London gave an interview in which he said:
By the way, under the customary laws of war, these activities are illegal and constitute war crimes, and render the activists legitimate targets - which is the saddest part of the whole thing: Young people being brainwashed to commit war crimes and put themselves in danger, all for Palestinian PR and sympathy points.

Gamblor, are you OK? It took you 2-1/2 days to craft that bazooka blast of ad hominem. You're slipping.

Palestinian activists are definitely the ones committing war crimes lol.

the nastiest Israel/Palestine story iv'e heard recently:

Settlers show up, set up shop on the high ground above a Palestinian town (obviously). Settlers take the towns only water supply, IDF tells Palestinians "no more water for you".

every week (or something) Palestinians march to the water supply to say "hey man that's not cool! we're thirsty!" IDF stops them.

one week as the Palestinian are walking back home (cuz wtf else r they gonna do?) a few kids throw a couple small rocks at heavily armed soldiers in armored Humvees.

and no1 likes getting rocks thrown at them, amirite?

kids run away, IDF thinks they see which house they ran towards.

so they come back with a tanker truck filled with raw sewage and blast the house with a cocktail of everything that gets flushed down the toilet.

"you want some water? here, have some water!"

Hey, that's who you're listening to. I hope you're okay with listening to that person.

But don't pretend she's anything less than who she is. She's a member of an organization that lends moral, financial, and tactical support to people that openly and proudly murder civilians as a political strategy.

Sadly, lots of organizations openly and proudly murder civilians as a political strategy. Most governments qualify. Then they tout the murderers as heroes. The United States is a member of this disgusting club. Great Britain too. So is Israel.

And it doesn't matter who we're listening to, what matters is what they say.

How we know NYPD isn't bugging this thread

I mean, the most obvious clue that you were fed an earful of lies is that nonsense about the raw sewage and settler feces. It's just one more propaganda lie, so prevalent that even mainstream Palestinian journalists are repeating it as fact:
I mean, anyone with even a basic level of minimum of critical thinking skill knows that a professional national army does not use raw sewage tanks with human feces. But you, naturally, have no problem believing this because Israel is a priori guilty.

So what is it really?

It is a foul-smelling, but completely safe, liquid called "skunk" for riot control. Of course, it contains no feces, "settler" or otherwise:
Funny that the Palestinian "news" and your story's author had no problem repeating the raw sewage claim without any effort to verify. You'd think some reasonable investigation would be done or a little proof required before publishing such a defamatory story. You'd think you, a supposedly reasonable person, would at least see if it were true before posting it here and shoving it in our faces.

Also, its funny that an organization so devoted to war crimes (as you claim) and killing children uses safe, environmentally-friendly crowd control against foreign citizens.

Incidentally, how did Maduro and Yanukovych deal with crowd control against their own citizens?

you know what, i think you're right. when i heard that story the person recounting it most likely said "sprayed liquid that smelled like raw sewage." not "sprayed raw sewage".

but cmon. you need to 3 multi-quotes and 2 sources to convince yourself that its OK to spray down a house with "skunk" because kids between the ages 6-16 threw rocks at people with guns?

am i to take your above post to mean you're totally OK with the skunk-spraying practice?

the baseline of acceptable behavior you set up is Maduro and Yanukovych?

"thank us this isn't live ammo."

My point was that these stories rarely show the truth. I've found that the assumption here - and all over the world, usually - is that Israel is a priori guilty whenever any Palestinian or journalist makes any accusation whatsoever. So my policy is always "citation needed".

With respect to the skunk: it's completely harmless? environmentally friendly?

Generally speaking, why wouldn't I be ok with it?

Maybe you can replace your regular potpourri with it then

perfect post is 8 to 10 words and an emoticon