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Old 06-18-2017, 07:24 PM   #8376
SootedPowa
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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Originally Posted by epcfast View Post
Torygraph leading with Davies to be interim leader though
Probably why shes slipping on betfair to be the prime minister after election I guess. Either that your fake DM is doing the rounds on twitter as we speak
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:27 PM   #8377
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK View Post
Re - Tory-DUP agreement

i) Saying Tories can't form a coalition with the DUP seems deeply undemocratic. Surely on matters affecting all of the United Kingdom anyone who can win a vote of confidence should get to govern?

ii) Those who have a problem with the Tory-DUP deal but no issue with Scots voted in Westerminster on issues devolved to Holyrood are full of ****. Tories have a significant majority on England/Wales related budget issues.

iii) The Tory-DUP alliance is nonetheless concerning. In the short term I favour discussions with Sinn Fein & the SDLP to gauge any "red lines". Ideally the DUP would agree supply and confidence in return for Northern Ireland specific bribes like new roads in both Unionist and Republican areas. Any bribe which favours Unionists over Republicans is unacceptable.

iv) In the long term the UK needs constitutional reform. Scots voting on devolved issues is absolute b.s. Excess Scottish and Welsh representation in Westminster is b.s. Agreeing a coalition deal with a sectarian party is b.s. I favour wider regional devolution (9 regions of England, N. Ireland, Wales, Scotland). Each region would have a parliament with the same, mutually agreed upon devolved powers regarding tax and spending. N. Ireland would have the same deal as the other 11 regions with special provisions to comply with the GFA. This would resolve the West Lothian question.
I like how in paragraph i you whined that people complaining about the Tories allying with ****ing domestic terrorists were "undemocratic" but by paragraph iv you were advocating for disenfranchising people who might vote to increase your da's taxes.

You aren't a bright boy, son, you're a upper class twit. Never ****ing forget it.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:03 PM   #8378
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

I strongly disagree with many of David Davis's views but he's one of the more independent minded and less partisan MPs. Much better than total **** Boris. He's a vastly superior performer than Theresa May. He strongly opposed tuition fees so it would be interesting to see if the Tories matched Labour's pledge if there was another election (or even in this parliament?).
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:38 PM   #8379
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40322960

Last edited by PartyGirlUK; 06-18-2017 at 08:39 PM. Reason: This was outside a mosque.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:20 AM   #8380
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Just down the road from us. Let's see if it gets any attention from our far right cousins across the pond.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:37 AM   #8381
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Eye witness accounts have described the assailant as a caucasian male, so I guess that would make him mentally ill and not a terrorist:



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Old 06-19-2017, 02:13 AM   #8382
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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He strongly opposed tuition fees so it would be interesting to see if the Tories matched Labour's pledge if there was another election (or even in this parliament?).
I doubt the Tories will match the Labour pledge on tuition fees as it wins them pretty much zero votes in the 18-25 demographic, although I can imagine a few parents seeing the Tories as a sensible compromise.

I'd guess the Tories will just try to shore up their core vote. Something like abolishing all care home fees and care at home. They could even pay for it by increasing taxes on anyone earning over £80k, as it's not like that will lose them any votes, as the very rich are never going to be dumb enough to vote for Corbyn.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:59 AM   #8383
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

The conspiracy theories in this thread are laughable. The advice to stay in the flats, the lack of an alarm system that alerted all residents would all have been the best approach - if the fire had remained contained as it was supposed to. The one issue was the chimney effect due to the cladding.

Also laughable to say they should have changed the advice about staying put - once it was clear that people should have got out it was too late. Having people die on the stairwell doesn't help, they were waiting to be rescued by firefighters and many were.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:06 AM   #8384
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Another bloody dick in a van.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:06 AM   #8385
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Lucky he isn't dead. Was pinned down and getting beat until the imam intervened.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:48 AM   #8386
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

..so do they have a dup deal or what
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:24 PM   #8387
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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..so do they have a dup deal or what
At the time of writing, no.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7797981.html
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:11 PM   #8388
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40330159

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A fake Daily Mail front cover went viral after fooling thousands of people, including journalists and politicians.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:16 AM   #8389
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

got a mate who's into the whole corbyn malarkey, she's exceptionally bright but not too up on history/politics/political theory and all that

someone gimme a book recommendation, i wanna get her something which serves as a toe-dip into the philosophy and history of lefty leanings. nothing too mental please
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:06 AM   #8390
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

I'd recommend Owen Jones - Chavs, the establishment, both are contemporary and accessible.
David Harvey, a brief history of neo-liberalism is fairly dense with graphs and stuff but pretty essential imo.
In terms of left wing histories, everything is very subjective ofc. Chris Harman, a People's history of the world (inspired by Howard Zinn a People's history of the US)
I'd suggest the website marxists.org and go for Rosa Luxembourg, Trotsky, Lenin, Gramsci.
Richard Seymour wrote one about Corbyn, not read it but Seymour is fantastic.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:11 AM   #8391
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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Originally Posted by BOIDS View Post
got a mate who's into the whole corbyn malarkey, she's exceptionally bright but not too up on history/politics/political theory and all that

someone gimme a book recommendation, i wanna get her something which serves as a toe-dip into the philosophy and history of lefty leanings. nothing too mental please
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capita...-First_Century
Quote:
On May 18, 2014, the English edition reached number one on the New York Times Best Seller list for best selling hardcover nonfiction[2] and became the greatest sales success ever of academic publisher Harvard University Press.[3]
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:33 AM   #8392
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Pretty much what I wrote a few days ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40330789

Quote:
Four ministers were warned about tower block fire risks
Four separate government ministers were warned that fire regulations were not keeping people safe, in letters that have subsequently been seen by the BBC.

In the leaked letters, experts warn that those living in tower blocks like Grenfell Tower were "at risk".

At least 79 people are dead or missing presumed dead after the fire at the London high-rise last week.

The department that received the letters said work to improve regulation and safety had already been under way.

Leaked letters

The letters show experts have been worried about fire safety in tower blocks for years.

Following a fatal fire in Lakanal House in south London in 2009, a series of recommendations were made to keep people safe.

They were ignored. The government promised a review of fire regulations in 2013, but it still has not happened.

BBC One's Panorama has obtained a dozen letters sent by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group.

Informed by experts, it warned the government it "could not afford to wait for another tragedy".

Four ministers - all from the Department for Communities and Local Government - received letters but did not strengthen the regulations.

Ronnie King, a former chief fire officer who sits on the group, says the government has ignored repeated warnings about tower block safety.

"We have spent four years saying 'Listen, we have got the evidence, we've provided you with the evidence, there is clear public opinion towards this, you ought to move on this'," said Mr King
After six people were killed at Lakanal House in 2009, the coroner made a series of safety recommendations for the government to consider.

The government department promised a review in 2013, but it was soon delayed.

In March 2014, the parliamentary group wrote: "Surely… when you already have credible evidence to justify updating… the guidance… which will lead to saving of lives, you don't need to wait another three years in addition to the two already spent since the research findings were updated, in order to take action?

"As there are estimated to be another 4,000 older tower blocks in the UK, without automatic sprinkler protection, can we really afford to wait for another tragedy to occur before we amend this weakness?"

After further correspondence, Liberal Democrat MP Steven Williams - who was then a minister in the department - replied: "I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."

The group replied to say they "were at a loss to understand, how you had concluded that credible and independent evidence, which had life safety implications, was NOT considered to be urgent".

"As a consequence the group wishes to point out to you that should a major fire tragedy, with loss of life, occur between now and 2017 in, for example, a residential care facility or a purpose built block of flats, where the matters which had been raised here, were found to be contributory to the outcome, then the group would be bound to bring this to others' attention."

The letters were written before the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower.

One went to the-then Communities and Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles, who received a letter about fire regulations from the parliamentary group in February 2014.

He had also been asked to look at fire safety in February 2013 and March 2013 by two separate coroners, investigating two tower block fires.
In December 2015, the all-party group wrote to Conservative MP James Wharton, another minister in the department at the time, and warned about the risk of fires spreading on the outside of buildings with cladding.

"Today's buildings have a much higher content of readily available combustible material. Examples are timber and polystyrene mixes in structure, cladding and insulation.

"This fire hazard results in many fires because adequate recommendations to developers simply do not exist. There is little or no requirement to mitigate external fire spread."

The last of the four ministers in the department to receive a letter was Gavin Barwell, who has since moved on to become Theresa May's top aide. He received his letter from the parliamentary group in September last year.

In November, Mr Barwell replied to say his department had been looking at the regulations, and would make a statement "in due course".

In April this year, Mr Barwell wrote to say he did "acknowledge that producing a statement on building regulations has taken longer than I had envisaged".

The fire safety group pointed out that it had been "given a similar response by three successive ministers since 2010" and it "is now time to listen to what the Fire Sector is saying".

The government has said there is still no timetable for a review.

The Department for Communities and Local Government said that a police investigation into the Grenfell Fire is already under way "but it will be some time before it is fully understood how the fire started or why it took hold in the way it did."

In a statement, it added: "The government has acted to improve fire regulation and safety, including the recommendations made by the Coroner following the Lakanal House Fire.

"The final recommendation concerned simplification of fire safety guidance, and this work was under way, with a consultation due to be published this summer.

"Fire safety requirements are complex issues and our priority has been that we have high standards. A great deal of work has been completed, including commissioning and undertaking research to support the planned consultation. Clearly, in light of this tragic event, we need to reflect on whether this consultation is the correct next step to take. We will confirm our approach shortly."
In a separate development, Panorama has discovered that firefighters put out the first fire at Grenfell Tower.

They were called to a fridge fire, and within minutes told residents the fire was out in the flat.

The crew was leaving the building when firefighters outside spotted flames rising up the side of the building.

The Fire Brigades Union say firefighters were left facing an unprecedented fire, and officers broke their own safety protocol to rescue people.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:53 AM   #8393
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

think i'll go with something by luxemburg (she's on a feminist kick also, so something by her seems ideal) plus oafk's suggestion for something a bit more contemporary

any specific luxemburg recommendation?

Last edited by BOIDS; 06-20-2017 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:16 AM   #8394
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

nobody actually reads piketty. it's 700 pages and boring. anyone interested should find a good review instead.

there's some great orwell newspaper writing on political issues. so some collection of orwell articles and columns maybe. as i please is supposed to be the best.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:34 AM   #8395
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

I read it.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:41 AM   #8396
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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think i'll go with something by luxemburg (she's on a feminist kick also, so something by her seems ideal) plus oafk's suggestion for something a bit more contemporary

any specific luxemburg recommendation?
The one I have is selected works. There is 'essential Rosa l' which is reform or revolution and the mass strike, amazon. But they're on marxists.org for free. These are highly contextual to Germany and Russia around 1905 etc.
Feminism - ariel levy female chauvinist pigs
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:43 AM   #8397
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

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Originally Posted by BOIDS View Post
got a mate who's into the whole corbyn malarkey, she's exceptionally bright but not too up on history/politics/political theory and all that

someone gimme a book recommendation, i wanna get her something which serves as a toe-dip into the philosophy and history of lefty leanings. nothing too mental please
What's your goal? To dissuade her from being into the whole Corbyn malarkey or to have her inform her already held beliefs?

I also found Joeseph Stliglitz the price of inequality much more accessible than the Piketty which remains largely unread.

I also think the Gramsci and Luxemburg recommendations go a good bit deeper than a toe dip, Trotsky as well but he has some more accessible stuff but I'm not sure of the relevance. G. A. Cohen why not socialism at <100 pages and very clearly written would also be a good start.

Last edited by dereds; 06-20-2017 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:50 AM   #8398
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

na not dissuasion

she's become very passionate about the ills of inequality and i want her to absorb respectable lefty work instead of thecanary.co and some commie idiot she works with who thinks money should be banned

she already knows those are trash sources of info but doesn't really know where else to look
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:53 AM   #8399
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

Cool I've edited above but think the Price of Inequality and Why not Socialism are good starts and are easily accessible. TomJ mentioned Richard Seymour and his blog over at leninology goes into more detail on particular questions and is generally much better than the canary. I don't agree with everything but he thinks and writes alright.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:43 AM   #8400
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Re: UK Politarding Thread

the david kynaston's books on the social history of post-war britain are supposedly really good https://www.goodreads.com/series/195...-new-jerusalem

rawls' "a theory of justice" is something ive been wanting to read for ages but it's way too long too. basically all books should be shorter.

ive read naomi klein's shock doctrine which is incredibly influential and has some good points but it's also kinda trash tbh

and the spirit level by some english figures. that's trash too
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