hey JD your capslock appears to be on

the counterpoint here is that social housing is a disaster everywhere, even in welfare scandinavia. it should either never have been built or be entire mixed with private housing. the central government or council ****ing it up and getting people killed isnt a point in favour of them doing more of it.

but yeah also dont get health and safety regulation wrong because youre too obsessed with avoiding red tape and dumb **** like that

EVEN THE SLOW ON THE UPTAKE BOOKIES ARE STARTING TO SEE THE WOOD FROM THE TREES NOW.

GET WITH THE PROGRAMME OSTRICH.

AND I THINK IF YOU WERE THAT RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING SO UNPREDICTABLE YOU ARE ENTITLED TO BRAG. IT'S LIKE IF I CORRECTLY GUESSED THE AMOUNT OF FAIRGROUND JELLYBEANS IN A GIANT JAR.

I WOULDN'T JUST KEEP THAT TO MYSELF WOULD I?

The only sensible thing to do would be to post about it on a Friday night on message board about internet poker. IN CAPS LOCK!!!

WELL I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING AFTER A 14 HOUR SHIFT DON'T I? TOO MUCH IN BRAIN TO GO TO BED.

TODAY I WAS PUNCHED KICKED SPAT AT AND VERBALLY ABUSED BY MORE THAN ONE PERSON I HAVE TO GET MY THRILLS WHERE I CAN!

Hammond seems underpriced to be next leader. Boris Johnson polls awfully with remain voters, Rudd is sitting on a majority of 350, David davis lol. Who else is there? Hammond follows the major mould of picking someone so boring no one has a super negative view on them.

May couldn't answer questions on newsnight; how is she ever expected to negotiate with the EU27? Out of her depth.

Spoiler:

With all due respect you surely can't believe that.


Meantime

I think the value is with Hammond, Rudd and Green.

Is this a traffic light pun?

Your whole argument is pretty misleading. You cannot argue that there were only 2 death by fires in tower blocks. The problem is that once it hits a building like that Grenfell the numbers go up rather quickly. You would have to show numbers how many fires were in tower blocks and how many of these tower blocks had no sprinkler system and this kind of claddening.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...e-cuts-warning

The problem is that if you say all the fire preventing mechanics are optional you will see that only poor people will live there because they cant afford better but I think middle class families just wont rent a flat in a building when they know there is no escape route, no fire warning and no sprinkler system.

The government only needs to spent the money on their own buildings. Not sure but I think these towers are probably owned by companies so you can just order them to improve the safety or fine them until its cheaper to do it.

Or better ask yourself: Would you want to rent a flat in the 20th floor of such a building with your family(including children)

The 'company' is a tenant's management organisation. The board is comprised of 8 tenants, 4 members appointed by the local council and 3 independent members.

Wp sir

Odds on hung parliament were pretty good though.

Lord Buckethead has confirmed he will stand again at the next election and won't rest until Ceefax is back.

http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co....sLb538.twitter

Best political news I've had in the past...week.

People underestimate the chances of a black swan event occurring prior to it occurring and then overestimate the chances of it occurring after it does occur. This goes for terrorist attacks, hurricanes, Chernobyl disasters and tower block fires. So yes, two deaths per 7 years was "misleading" as is 70-100 deaths per week.

Whatever happened was an extremely unusual occurrence, for example:

i) The government said today the more flammable type of cladding shouldn't (according to regulations) be used in flats about the 18th floor. It may be these regulations are widely adhered to and Grenfell Tower is one of the few exceptions.

ii) The fire started around 01:00 and spread over the next few hours meaning residents were generally at home and asleep. A similar fire at 13:00 would have been much less deadly.

iii) The weather was 17c at 01:00 which is unusually warm for London.

iv) The wind was 2 MPH. The wind is that slow for a few hours every month. IANAFE but cuold the fire spread slower if the wind was a more normal 8-12 MPH? Perhaps faster winder would supply the fire with oxygen and it would actually spread more rapidly? I don't know.

v) The flats all had apparently fire resistant doors to restrict fires to the flat it started in. And yet for the flat it started in, this apparently wasn't the case. What happened? Perhaps the guys who refurbished the flat were cowboys and used a cheaper, non fire resistant door to save money. Perhaps the flat owner had his window open since it was an unusually pleasant day without which the fire wouldn't have spread.

vi) Perhaps the original fire (allegedly due to a faulty refrigerator) was minor & would have been extinguished without incident had it occurred an hour earlier when the flat owner was awake.

vii) Perhaps the original fire (allegedly due to a faulty refrigerator) was minor & would have been extinguished without incident had the flat owner not forgotten to replace the battery in his smoke detector (seriously, how many flats/houses have functional smoke detectors in need of a battery change? It's very common).

viii) Did the block have fire stops between floors? If so why didn't they work? If not why not? If 95% of UK tower blocks have inter-floor fire stops between floors I would view the lack of fire stops as specific to Kensington council/the refurbishers of Grenfell Towers. If 10% of UK tower blocks have inter-floor fire stops it's potentially a UK wide regulatory issue.

ix) Residents were given advice to stay in their flats in case of a fire in the building. This advice was predicated on the notion that any fire would be contained to one flat. When it became clear the fire wasn't contained to one flat, why wasn't advice given via loudspeaker to evacuate the building ASAP?

A resident called 999 at 00:54 and the fire department arrived at 01:00.

This is the building at 01:30



This is the building at 02:10



The Fire Department gave advice at 04:15 to contact residents via phone/social media and tell them to vacate the building.

This is the building at 04:20



I do not understand why advice was not given to urgently vacate the building the moment the fire spread across floors, which presumably had already occurred by the time the fire brigade arrived at 01:00.

I want to know how many of the dead phoned 999 and were told to stay in their flats. I think the number will be all of them. There is no doubt many causes and much blame but I am perplexed the decision not to evacuate the building and believe the inquests/inquiries will lay a lot of blame at the feet of the senior fire officer(s) who told the residents to stay put. Had residents been ordered to evacuate at 01:10 I think we'd have less than 10 deaths.

Apparently they did. Some of the flats were privately owned and privately rented. One recent rental ad showed a distinctly smart two-bed going for just over £1,700 a month furnished.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-...-59885887.html

In a well-designed building the fire should've never been able to expand as much and as quickly as it did, what happened there is like in the 19th century but with a late 20th century building.

Explain to me why everyone is blaming the building material, but completely overlooking the faulty fridge catching fire. Fridges should not be catching fire in the 21st century. Seems to me the blame should be on the fridge manufacturers/installers just as much.

I wouldn't be surprised if the fridge caught fire because some idiot plugged it into a socket with too many plugs. Rule number 1 of electricity: don't overload plugs.

There have been lots of documented power surges at Grenfell resulting in appliances catching fire.

Is there anyone here who feels May should do anything but resign?
Not just based on Grenfell.

Good point, in fact 24 story building should have zero anti-fire measures which would properly incentivise people to make sure they never start fires.

(sarcasm)