UK Politics Thread - Page 192 - Politics and Economics

A fall in the value of sterling means the pound in your pocket is worth less. You have to be either ******ed or in denial to avoid accepting the f***ing obvious.

The pound in your pension fund is worth more due to the fall in the value of sterling though, and as I have more pounds in my pension fund than in my pocket, then I'm better off.

03-30-2017 , 04:02 AM

#4777

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

The pound in your pension fund is worth more due to the fall in the value of sterling though, and as I have more pounds in my pension fund than in my pocket, then I'm better off.

So you are worse off now in exchange for some nominal still subject to massive change in value in ~35 years.

03-30-2017 , 05:15 AM

#4778

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,360

Assuming he lives that long and can benefit from it.

03-30-2017 , 05:40 AM

#4779

Alexdb

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 618

There are plenty of examples of countries' central banks deliberately causing devaluations of their currencies. The EU is one of them. (Wikipedia examples)

So do you think they are financially illiterate, or they want to be poorer, or could it be something else?

03-30-2017 , 06:09 AM

#4780

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexdb

There are plenty of examples of countries' central banks deliberately causing devaluations of their currencies. The EU is one of them. (Wikipedia examples)

So do you think they are financially illiterate, or they want to be poorer, or could it be something else?

The bolded is what separates totally your example and the situation with the pound after Brexit.

Cmon bro.

03-30-2017 , 06:29 AM

#4781

Alexdb

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 618

I wouldn't overestimate the competency of central banks either. The point is simply that weaker does not equal bad, and stronger does not equal good, which is the mistake many British people are making.

There can be winners and losers in either direction. FWIW Mervyn King said he was trying to devalue our currency and increase inflation when he ran our central bank, he said it would be a positive thing if Brexit helped with this. Given your previous reply appears to give credit to central banks' judgement, that should provide some reassurance.

03-30-2017 , 06:38 AM

#4782

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 12,360

That's because the idea was to try to inflate away the nation debt.

03-30-2017 , 06:48 AM

#4783

SootedPowa

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 3,337

Quote:

Nicola Sturgeon 'out of touch' with Scots over Brexit as poll shows support for Theresa May vision

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...pport-theresa/

03-30-2017 , 06:58 AM

#4784

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexdb

No the point is that if someone makes a rational decision to purposefully devalue a currency (and you can debate that decision in and of itself) is totally different and not comparable to the markets forcing a devaluation on you.

03-30-2017 , 08:11 AM

#4785

Alexdb

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 618

Then shouldn't we stop to think whether that forced move was in the same direction the rational thinkers were moving anyway?

So we wanted devaluation, but only if we get to do it ourselves artificially? Isn't a rate a rate in the end?

Since devaluation was potentially an outcome of Brexit, I tried to decide if that was a cost or a benefit; I didn't label it as a bad thing just because we couldn't do Brexit without it.

03-30-2017 , 02:46 PM

#4786

davmcg

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by SootedPowa

Quote:

Nicola Sturgeon 'out of touch' with Scots over Brexit as poll shows support for Theresa May vision

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...pport-theresa/

I sincerely have no idea what they were being asked from reading that article.

03-30-2017 , 02:54 PM

#4787

davmcg

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexdb

The recent currency crash is in anticipation of a persisting trade imbalance and a decline in investment. That is not a bright future.

03-30-2017 , 06:35 PM

#4788

GBV

banned

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexdb

I can't believe you were lecturing us on how people didn't understand your economic brilliance, yet you can't separate overvaluation resulting from market hype from a decline in intrinsic value.

Brexit is not some psychological phenomena. Market value is being explicitly destroyed. UK business will not be able to do deals with EU business with same ease and efficiency. Even assuming that the whole affair was arranged more competently than it actually is that would be the case. This cannot be a good thing by definition.

03-30-2017 , 06:41 PM

#4789

GBV

banned

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,331

Quote:

Originally Posted by davmcg

I sincerely have no idea what they were being asked from reading that article.

I agree with you.

This is the original research:

http://natcen.ac.uk/media/1361407/ss...8f-tw0-two.pdf

Any one who links to media spin about primary research and not the research itself is an idiot. There is no reason to waste everyone's time with the pointless drivel of some partisan hack, link to the data.

04-03-2017 , 05:04 PM

#4790

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,804

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

So you are worse off now in exchange for some nominal still subject to massive change in value in ~35 years.

Using that logic, no one should ever put money in a pension as they would be "worse off now".

04-03-2017 , 05:37 PM

#4791

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Using that logic, no one should ever put money in a pension as they would be "worse off now".

Im not using that logic to advise on an action in anyway. I am using it to describe the outcome of an event.

Its objectively true that you are worse off now and pointing that out seems standard in light of your claims about your spending power in ~X years.

04-04-2017 , 01:56 AM

#4792

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,804

You still can't describe people as worse off just because a "the pound in their pocket" is worth less (inflation on food up 0.2% year-on-year).

04-04-2017 , 04:10 AM

#4793

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

You still can't describe people as worse off just because a "the pound in their pocket" is worth less (inflation on food up 0.2% year-on-year).

Worse off today is the point.

Also cherry picking+ need a cite.

Last edited by O.A.F.K.1.1; 04-04-2017 at 04:24 AM.

04-04-2017 , 04:22 AM

#4794

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Sharply rising inflation since last June's Brexit vote is already starting to hurt the poorest households in Britain.

Supermarket chain Asda said on Friday its gauge of disposable income showed the weakest growth since June 2014 during February, with the poorest households hit particularly hard.

While overall disposable income rose 1.7 percent in the year to February, for the lowest income families it plummeted 18 percent, as this table shows:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bri...-idUKKBN1721W9

04-04-2017 , 04:39 AM

#4795

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,804

Quote:

Year-on-year, main upward pressure came from prices of transport (6.9 percent compared to 5.7 percent in January); housing and utilities (0.7 percent compared to 0.6 percent); recreation and culture (1.6 percent compared to 0.9 percent); restaurants and hotels (3.2 percent compared to 3 percent); food and non-alcoholic beverages (0.2 percent compared to -0.5 percent) and miscellaneous goods and services (1.1 percent compared to 0.8 percent). In contrast, cost of clothing and footwear edged down 0.1 percent (after being flat in January).*

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit.../inflation-cpi

So the increasing oil price and the cost of leisure activities are driving inflation. Not Brexit.

04-04-2017 , 04:52 AM

#4796

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit.../inflation-cpi

So the increasing oil price and the cost of leisure activities are driving inflation. Not Brexit.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

Need to do some studying on how Oil is traded son.

If the pound weakens against the dollar, it makes oil more expensive, even if spot Oil price has remained totally static.

Also whilst the food inflation figure might be low in a vacuum, it has still increased by 0.7%.

04-04-2017 , 05:16 AM

#4797

GBV

banned

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/unit.../inflation-cpi

So the increasing oil price and the cost of leisure activities are driving inflation. Not Brexit.

Go in a supermarket and look at the prices.

04-04-2017 , 05:17 AM

#4798

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,804

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

If the pound weakens against the dollar, it makes oil more expensive, even if spot Oil price has remained totally static.

Jesus….

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1

Also whilst the food inflation figure might be low in a vacuum, it has still increased by 0.7%.

Okay, maybe you should dig a few posts out from 12 months ago where everyone was praising the government for the deflation in food prices? But yeah, I'm sure the relative 70p per £100 increase in groceries is crippling the JAMs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBV

Go in a supermarket and look at the prices.

Or, we have this index called "inflation" that does it for us.

04-04-2017 , 05:24 AM

#4799

O.A.F.K.1.1

Ted Patrick

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,952

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Jesus….

You called?

What is your problem there?

You are the one making the super mong ******ed statement that oil prices in the UK have nothing to do with Brexit and the resulting massive loss in the value of the pound.