I wish SNP actually were just Tartan Tories and I'd happily vote for Independence if they were.

What are the advantages to Scotland being in the EU (and out of the UK) as opposed to being in the UK (and out of the EU)?

Here's a link to the WhatScotlandThinks site. Professor Curtice' article explains 4 polls by different organisations, BMG and Yougov, showed support for a 2nd referendum of between 34 and 38%. The polls themselves are linked to in the article and each one had a different wording.

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2...ce-referendum/

Freedom of movement rights.

If you're an EU citizen and you're not happy with your government there's nothing stopping you from buying a one-way plane ticket to 27 other countries and creating a new life for yourself. Thanks to the Brexit vote that freedom will likely stripped from us.

No Tory governments.

I can see how this would be important to Scots.

Can we move beyond simple slogans to real, substantive benefits that one option has over the other and would impact on people's daily lives? It's fairly easy to do for the In the UK but ut of the EU side which is why I'm wondering if anyone can do it from the other side. HnC has come up with 1 point but it's minor imo in comparison to the benefits we'd lose.

If we left the UK that would also drastically increase our chances of becoming a Republic which would be a wonderful thing.

It would be fandabbydozy

poll 1 "before brexit negotiations"
poll 2 "within a year"
poll 3 38 yes 47 no 15 don't know

Sunday Times poll (from same article)

Hardly "massively in favour of no"

no tory government seems like a real issue iyam. having a ruling party that would actually have to win seats in scotland sounds like a decent idea.

but basically independence in itself seems like the major factor. so for most it's not leaving the uk to be in the eu, but leaving the uk and being in the eu as an additional advantage.

there are 4 theoretical options (uk+eu, uk+no eu, independence+eu, independence+no eu) and you could rank them differently, but the vote will in effect be about the 2nd and 3rd. or maybe between the 2nd and a new referendum on 3rd/4th.

Yeah. Like Zimbabwe. Or North Korea.

The SNP's who case is based around it's about leaving the EU and the aim would be to stay in or get back in ASAP.

Still though, no one has been able to give any substantive advantages that being in the EU (and out of the UK) has over being in the UK (and out of the EU)

Just around one third or slightly more want a referendum. That's pretty massive in terms of those who don't. Can hardly claim the country is demanding a referendum, as the SNP do, when it's clearly not the case.

I could probably have worded my initial post a bit better but as I said at the time I was at work and didn't have access to the polls. I did remember the figure of only roughly 1/3 of those polled actually wanting one.

I was thinking more along the lines of Germany, Ireland or Finland but yea okay.

What are you worried about then? Let them hold it and dance a jig when another 55/45 No vote is declared.

Unionists that are so staunchly against another referendum are really just against it because they know the momentum is with the Yes movement, and the chances of it going through are much higher than they were in 2014. They just won't admit it because it makes them look weak.

And 50% want one in the Sunday Times poll.
So we have 2 polls on the actual issue of a referendum and in neither of them are over 50% against.
I didn't claim the country was demanding one.
I gave my opinion that I think they should be entitled to one and then asked you to back up your claim that the polls showed that scotland was massively against one.
You then posted an article linking to polls that didn't support the claim.

I'm worried they somehow fall for the SNP spin and win it. It would be a catastrophe for the country.

I'm assuming you don't have a twitter account when you see some of the language that is used by pro indy supporters there. I'm not saying the independence movement is based on it but to deny it's there would be incorrect.

And let's not forget the words of the SNP leader of Perth and Kinross Council, who was also recently employed by Deputy First Minister Swinney

"Let us not reflect on concerns that we have been under the heel of foreign influence and power for 300 years.

"The island of Britain is no longer subject to the actions of quislings who may seek to see smaller cultures extinguished on an island of coffins by red coats."

He wasn't even rebuked by the SNP.

they're hoping it gets them from 45% to 50+%. that's a marginal change, not the main driver of the issue.

you can argue leaving the eu too small a thing to result in a new referendum, but discussing what should/shouldnt produce a new vote gets boring very quickly.
being your own country is the advantage. economically being in the uk is most likely better, but you'll be ruled by others in london instead of by yourself in edinburgh. you have to weigh the importance of those things by yourself.

likewise you have to decide yourself whether you think it's worth granting some powers to the eu in return for the advantages that brings.

Pretty sure the last part of that quote is a reference to the Glencoe massacre. Don't know the context, but hardly think that such a reference is rebuke material.

I agree that the bigotry I described above is an in issue, but a vote for independence can never be categorised as clearly bigoted - a vote for UKIP would be.

We are ruled by Edinburgh already, the parliament has massive powers and welfare powers are in the process of being transferred as well (although the SNP aren't exactly in a rush to take them, for obvious reasons...). Wrecking the economy and imposing a level of austerity never seen before for no good reason is pretty idiotic. The irony of it all is that the SNP changed tack a few years back and went all out to get the votes of the disenfranchised and those who rely on the state. In that sense they've succeeded but these same people are the very ones who will be hit hardest by the massive cuts in public spending that would be coming post independence.

Here's a very good article slating the current case for an independent Scotland (and the SNP in particular). Written by a Tory? Nope, it's by Alex Bell who was Alex Salmond's head of policy

http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-...ain-or-shut-up

It wasn't about the Glencoe massacre, not when he's mentioning 'Quislings' and being 'under the heel of foreign influence and power for 300 years'.

The "quislings" were the Campbells (redcoats) who murdered the McDonalds after being given hospitality. The bodies are buried on a loch island.

(I might be wrong but guessing stuff like that got me plaudits for imagination when I studied English lit)

That doesn't explain the 300 years part. Also, it wasn't a history discussion he was having it was a council meeting.