On the one hand you say it's the fault of the migrant workers, then you say workers need to be protected. So, do you mean workers of a certain ilk need protecting from workers of a different hue?

Seems to me the problem is not with workers, but the share of wealth taken by the greedy ****s at the top of the tree.

That's not true. Jobs are offered to migrants for less than the minimum wage. How common that is, I've no idea. But I know it happens.

Not that I think it's the migrants' fault. Of course I think it's due to greedy ****s at the top of the tree who want everything.

So you believe in unrestricted immigration - with restrictions. Nice one.

I am not referring to illegal jobs.





This is how even the most libertarian advocates would see it working. Very tiny restrictions to keep out dangerous people.

Ignoring them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Illegal jobs need to be tackled but it's hard to believe that's an argument against immigration.

Barriers to immigration support the illegal jobs market because it's tied up with people being desperate to get here and remain here. I'd make the rule tomorrow that anytime illegal jobs are exposed all the workers get to stay unless its a scam.

Pretty much. Illegal jobs for migrants exist largely because of limits to migration. They are picking cockels on a beach for pennies on the pound because they can't go flip burgers in McDonald's instead for example.

Migrant workers having no ability to seek protection by the law because they would expect to be deported leads to their exploitation by gangs who smuggle them into the country.

I would rather we REDUCED the population of the UK. Actually return to being a green and pleasant land rather than a grey, polluted, concrete carbuncle. There's more to life than perpetual 'economic growth' at any cost.

bring back the empire as well I say. They never had it so good.

I concur. Hong Kong will be the first to return.

92% favour return to British rule



At the other end of the spectrum, you have a plethora of third world basketcases on the verge of total collapse who would benefit immeasurably from British rule, Zimbabwe and the United States being the most acute examples IMO.

Maybe you can leave the grown up discussions to the adults? We will PM you if we need to find out if your favourite film is Logan's Run or Hotel Rwanda.

Or maybe it would be Zulu.

Questioning the bizarre premise that perpetually increasing population density is intrinsically good is risible how exactly?

Why would Britain be better off with a population of 100 million than it would with a population of 20 million ceteris paribus? How will this improve our economy, environment or standard of living? Please explain. Would the US be better off if it had the same population density as China?

That wouldn't be you then.

No one said perpetually, I said indefinitely in fact.

Also we know for a fact reducing the population would be terrible in several ways. The people we don't kill in a genocide would be facing a life of poverty.

We don't have to full Soylent Green or Logan's run. We don't even need Chinese style one child policies. Demographic trends are leading to population reduction for most of the developed world and increasingly also parts of the undeveloped world. No interference is required.

And your solution to the problems that western nations are already facing due to this is...?

Also you inferred pretty heavily that the ideal population in your opinion is a lot less.

It isn't an argument against immigration: it's an argument for workers' rights.

Fair enough, I grunched a bit. Workers rights and immigration works for me.

If your post is serious:

What was it, 100 million people that died from famine as a direct result of forced integration to the British economic system?

And the 300+ million non whites across the empire who had no democratic voice while we 'fought for democracy' against the nazis constituted 'having it good'?

Apart from serious sarcasm there was nothing serious about me saying "bring back the empire as well I say. They never had it so good."

fair enough. difficult to tell in here.

So Russell Brand is running for Mayor of London.

Probably the best choice in the field too

Who knows? It's all up for grabs.

One of the slogans that was used during the Labour leadership race was "Ed does human." This was a snide reference to his brother, and fellow leadership contender, David.

Ed, apparently, was the human one.

Sadly, without any sarcasm what so ever, I have to acknowledge that there are places in this world that would be better off being part of the British Empire again. You could list any number of tin pot dictatorships abusing their people. Though, it should be equally acknowledged that ex-British colonies are more likely to be democracies than not. So, a mixed picture.

Not a UKIP supporter but they are certainly making things interesting.

The way both of the major parties are pulling into the wrong instead of arguing what is right on immigration is pissing me off hard. I have personal bias which makes this my number two priority behind the economy but I'm giving serious thought to throwing my meaningless (heavily labour area) vote at the lib dems. Hopefully the greens run a candidate so at least I have a better protest vote option.