So the SNP vote to remove the pay cap in Westminster but in Holyrood where they have the powers to do it they voted against a Labour motion (last month) to remove the pay cap. Hmm.

Not defending them but wasn't last month's just NHS?

Now would be a good time to awaken the sleeping giant of the tuc and propose coordinated strike ballots.

It's a shame Corbyn decided to use public sector pay as a political gambit instead of saving the discussion for a time when he might actually have won.

No, it was the public sector. These things just tend to be framed as nurses, firemen (and women), etc

Are you referring to the vote on 10th May because that was definitely NHS Pay Cap?

No idea how it is a shame.
Calling for an end to the public sector pay cap that has seen wages fall in real terms? Calling for an end to further cuts to emergency services at a time when the excellent job they do is obvious?
What better time than the Queen's speech to bring up an issue that was a key part of the campaign and very well supported nationwide? GQR poll showed it's backed by 80% of conservative voters.
It's a discussion that can and will be continued at every opportunity throughout the term of this zombie government.
Could you explain why it would have been better to save the discussion please.

Of course you don't, you don't ever look at both sides.

Is there any point?

Bringing it up at the point of the Queen's speech was the worst time if his aim was to get the pay cap removed - it was a good time if he was just trying to score points.

Winning this vote required getting enough Tories to turn against May, and would basically have been the end for her - it was hugely unlikely that would happen this quickly.

He'll now have to wait a while before getting a vote on this again, and he might have had a chance of winning if it hadn't been part of the queen's speech and was just raised through the normal parliamentary process.

It also gives the Tories the chance to present it as "their idea" in a future budget, however it was the last roll of the dice for Labour to try and sink the government, and they had to give it a go.

It was back to usual in yesterday's PMQs. Corbyn might be able to do a good turn at Glastonbury, but he's still pretty sterile in the commons, and a Theresa May who was visibly lacking confidence still had no problems dealing with his line of questioning.

Agree with all of this, feel like he wasted a vote on the best policy change at the worst time. I understand he is keeping the pressure on but imo this vote should have be saved for when there is a wobble in the DUP deal or the tories themselves, may have only been a month.

Just checked and you're right. For some reason I thought it was all public sector employees. Either way my point about their double standard here still stands. It may even be worse for them as if the SNP had funded the NHS in line with increased Barnett formula money, due to increased health spending in England, then I'm sure it would've been affordable. However they chose to spend it on other areas rather than the NHS.

Would you be in favour of a Norway deal and keeping free movement?

I have no strong opinion on free movement other than it's a clear forsaking of sovereignty. Immigration per se doesn't bother me.

However, the bit of the EU stuff that really shackles the UK is not doing their own trade deals. I can think of nothing more important in terms of long term independence and economic success than being able to start making our own trade deals and not be tied to the Eu's ideas of trade deals with others. If whatever deal arises makes that possible, I'm fine with that.

Any deal that doesn't allow direct trade deals with the rest of the world, I'm firmly against.

Interesting. I could see another referendum if we do end up with a temporary deal for an indeterminate amount of time, and I could see that saying stick. Probably enough Brexiteers who don't care about free movement to swing against hard Brexit if needed.

"The (Conservative) alliance with the DUP has emboldened their anti-rights and anti-equality agenda, has increased their intransigence and that isn’t acceptable or sustainable."

Fantastic.

The amendment by Labour was pure political points scoring, but it is totally standard. Labour had to capitalize on the horrible scoping of the DUP deal and the best way to do that was a compare and contrast. Will give DUP 1BN dollar wont increase pay deal for loverly Nurses and Policemen.

It has definitely given them political capital to spend later. When the Tories do end the pay freeze, as they must want to do as it scopes so horribly, it will still look like they are conceding to pressure and doing something not inherent to their project.

Exactly - the cheering when they "won" the vote won't have gone down well with the 80% of conservative voters who want the cap scrapped either.
There was no downside whatsoever.

Haha, did you wait all day for someone to vaguely agree with you?

On O.A.F.K.1.1's point, I don't think it matters how it looks unless there is an election soon after and probably not even then. They announced the "review" before the vote so they have the option to get results from that to indicate they should remove it if that's what they want to do.

Not sure where the 80% of conservative voters who want the cap removed came from. I expect it's 80% said they think it should be removed, but it clearly isn't a key issue for any of them, so it's pretty funny to think some cheering would have gone down badly. They were clearly cheering because they avoided Corbyn's attempt to vote down the queen's speech and stand in the way of the democratic process, not because they hate the nurses, yet more thinly veiled attempts to paint all tories as evil.

No - I've been working you oddball.
You do realise that after announcing the review they then U-Turned on it.






Terrible PR for them and caused by the Labour pushing for the amendment.
Do keep up.

Back to the insults, at least it's a new one.

Its not just how it looks, its also agenda setting in a way that hands Labour the initiative.

The pay cap is an attack vector that is not going away anytime soon. Especially if inflation creeps higher increasing the effective pay cut that luverly Nurses and Firmen are receiving. No one likes being mean to Nurses.

This vote will be referenced time and time again, Labour wont let it be forgotten and every topic will be wrenched round to well I dont know about the trade talks with Micronesia, but how bout them Nurses.

Everytime there is incident that requires Nurses or Firemen, how bout that vote????

Tories will have to cave on this one at some point.

Jeccross really clutching at straws again.

And the response can be "we had a vote". He'd have stood more chance of getting this done sooner if he'd raised it at a moment of weakness as he might have won it first time out. This way the nurses have to wait longer because he used it for political point scoring.

They will obviously stop the cap at some point - why do you think they announced a "review".

You're really struggling in this thread recently. At least this topic doesn't have numbers in it.

That response is just terribad though and just sounds like excuse making. The counter is just super easy, did you vote to increase nurse pay, yes or no?