A two-state solution for Ukraine? The Ongoing Ceasefire That Isn't - Page 7 - Politics and Economics

Lol this isn't the start of ww3. The US will do nothing like the US did nothing for Georgia in 2008 and Hungary in 1956.

The future of Ukraine hinges on the ability of its new government to organize. If they can provide potential resistance then the Russians will back off and say they were acting in defence of ethnic Russians. If not then a Russian friendly puppet government will be installed. Crimea will not be directly annexed lol that just doesn't happen anymore.

02-28-2014 , 10:34 PM

#152

Turn Prophet

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 11,558

YOU NOT SAY UKRAINE WEAK!

03-01-2014 , 01:27 AM

#153

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turn Prophet

I think it's a serious question.

Much as I decry Putin and Russia trampling all over Ukrainian democracy, I have to ask:
(1) What, realistically, can the US do? We sure as hell aren't risking war with Russia over Ukraine. Sorry, Ukraine, you should have had more oil.
(2) After countless interventions in Latin America (and other less local countries), the rest of the world has to take anything the US says about superpower relations with neighbors with a hefty grain of salt.

Putin gonna Putin.

The question is serious. The iraq comment is not.

03-01-2014 , 01:58 AM

#154

justin

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,522

good read with a little background info on mess that is Ukraine. http://pando.com/2014/02/24/everythi...aine-is-wrong/

03-01-2014 , 10:10 AM

#155

V0dkanockers

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by lozen

Dear USA

You invaded Iraq on false pretenses now you preach to Russia.

US will not go in if they will not go into Syria why the Ukraine?

Well for starters there is this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-invasion.html

03-01-2014 , 11:53 AM

#156

Putin3000

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 25

get ready Ukraine

03-01-2014 , 12:01 PM

#157

bobman0330

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Russia de facto annexing Crimea actually seems like the best answer. Crimea being in the hands of a hostile Ukraine is not a very stable solution for Russia, and all of Ukraine being a Russian puppet state is not ideal for anyone else.

03-01-2014 , 12:12 PM

#158

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Not really knowing a ton about the situation, I will always be skeptical of an "optimal solution" involving one country seizing control of another by military force.

03-01-2014 , 12:24 PM

#159

bobman0330

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OK!

03-01-2014 , 01:22 PM

#160

pepexed

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskalator

why dont you never care bout usa puppet governments? Anyway what's your business? why you poke you nose everywhere? Get your nose from iraq and afganistan first.
Legetimite president of Ukraine Viktor Janukovich is in Moscow. The guys in kiev are gangsters. They ask agreement of armed people on the streets. White house clowns and their friends garanted him political process.And we see how much their garantee is worth. Nothing.

03-01-2014 , 01:37 PM

#161

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Russian slappies are back!

03-01-2014 , 01:42 PM

#162

V0dkanockers

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,732

Looks like it might go from bad to worse.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

The problem is this authorization is for ALL of Ukraine and not just Crimea.

Quote:

The BBC's Richard Galpin in Moscow says it is potentially significant that the request was for deployment in Ukraine as a whole, and not specifically for flash-points such as Crimea.

03-01-2014 , 02:27 PM

#163

Dyrlan

stranger

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 12

Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic, with ≈60% of the population being Russian.

Crimean Prime Minister Sergey Aksyonov, appealed to Russia "for assistance in guaranteeing peace and calmness".

With Ukraine's new (not elected, anti-Russian and partly far-right) government openly threatening Russians across the country, Russia's aggressive move was far from surprising.

Now, I'm not saying that was the right thing to do, but USA acting as a protector of Ukraine's independence is so laughable. I think if they were in Russia's shoes, they would have invaded Kiev just in case. (only this time without having to lie about Ukraine possessing weapons of mass destruction etc)

03-01-2014 , 02:36 PM

#164

seattlelou

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That's just dumb. The US would have spent months trying to build world support through the UN not rolling troops in unmarked uniforms to take what they want.

Last edited by seattlelou; 03-01-2014 at 02:55 PM.

03-01-2014 , 02:43 PM

#165

dth123451

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Putin gives not one single ****. Dude is a monster.

03-01-2014 , 02:56 PM

#166

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyrlan

Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic within Ukraine

Try again.

03-01-2014 , 03:02 PM

#167

pepexed

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by V0dkanockers

Looks like it might go from bad to worse.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26400035

The problem is this authorization is for ALL of Ukraine and not just Crimea.

everything is ok. Mr.Putin in da house

http://translate.google.com/translat...2F908436.shtml

03-01-2014 , 03:02 PM

#168

Habsfan09

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,552

Quote:

Now, I'm not saying that was the right thing to do, but USA acting as a protector of Ukraine's independence is so laughable.

Quote:

The two Western powers signed an agreement with Ukraine in 1994, which Kiev's parliament wants enforcing now. The Budapest Memorandum, signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine – promises to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine, in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

Not laughable. If they let Russia do what they want then I assume that China will learn from that. If the papers aren't worth anything anymore then its a carte blanche for everyone. Once the trust in your word is lost you will never get it back and you can say goodbye to any deals with Iran and so on.

03-01-2014 , 03:07 PM

#169

JacktheDumb

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,427

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyrlan

Where were those open threats?

Sergey Aksyonov was appointed when foreign pro russian milita (according to the "milita" itself they are russian soldiers) occupied the parlament. So the guy isnt legit, it was just a smart propaganda move.

But i dont think the new government does have the guts to go to war with russia over Crimea. But they do have every right, and around 200000 soldiers + the EU to back them up.

Last edited by JacktheDumb; 03-01-2014 at 03:13 PM.

03-01-2014 , 03:11 PM

#170

Huskalator

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 775

It's pretty interesting to me that despite all the supposed progress we have made in finding diplomatic solutions to problems the world still operates on power politics. Ukraine has nothing to offer anybody and the EU supposedly relies on Russian oil so Ukraine is probably screwed despite how brazen and power grabby Russia's actions are.

03-01-2014 , 03:21 PM

#171

kimoser22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacktheDumb

Were were those open threats?

Putin played it very well he used Ukraines current weakness. But basically they have every right to force the russian troops out, which involves using there army.

And Sergey Aksyonov was appointed when foreign pro russian milita (according to the "milita" itself they are russian soldiers) occupied the parlament. So the guy isnt very legit.

But i dont think the new government does have the guts to go to war with russia over that area.

Discretion has to be the better part of valor here. Russia raised and Ukraine has a weak hand, need to fold. Looks like, IMO, Russia will be content with Crimea for the time being while waiting for the government in Kiev to collapse (they have a massive task ahead of them and this was before Russia decided to annex Crimea...). All this changes if they can provoke some violence against ethnic Russians or Russian troops by the Ukrainian military.

Also Ukraine figures large into Russia's energy plan, by shipping their natural gas to European markets through Ukraine, so the country means a lot more to the Russians than to us.
Also having a warm water port is a big deal for the Motherland...I think my HS Russian History teacher said that a lot of Russia's military expansion was fueled by the desire to find a warm water port. Also led to them losing a war to the Japanese...

Last edited by kimoser22; 03-01-2014 at 03:35 PM.

03-01-2014 , 05:01 PM

#172

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimoser22

How does taking Ukraine give Russia a "warm water port?"

03-01-2014 , 05:03 PM

#173

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

No doubt the US will soon play an active role in helping Ukraine pull away from Russia's ties. They know how valuable Ukraine is to Russia and if they can do enough to support a government favorable towards the west, then it definitely weakens Russia's sphere of influence and dramatically harms Russia's economy as a vast amount of Russia's natural gas flows through Ukraine.

Barring an attack on US soil, direct military intervention is unlikely. However, I would not be surprised to see some logistics and weapons support for Ukraine should all-out war occur there.