OK then now its more clear.

NO AND **** YOU.

Since lots of people here are generalizing and trying to use this as a case against self defense laws, gun rights, etc I am trying to talking about what happened in a more general way. I am interested in more in this case that a racist idiot neighborhood watch guy. You have been around here long enough to know that I am the last person to defend cops, and I'm not doing that in this case. I am talking about what happened in this specific incident and talking about what logically should have happened in this or other incidents.

And again for the record FU for insinuating that I have racist motives.

CC,

There can be a difference between analyzing the case and wondering what I, in a similar circumstance, might do differently to avoid ending up dead/injured and stating that because I could have done things differently, this mitigates Zimmerman's guilt.

It's the only inference I can draw from your posts. I don't know what to say. Why else would you attack murder victim like this? This is such an obvious situation that if it was presented to you as an hypothetical it would be absurd because there is only one way to respond to this. The cops failed and this poor kid was murdered in cold blood and your looking for the mistakes he made while running from a loony gunman.

L to the mutha****in DO

Just thought I'd point out for you, this means you believe that Zimmermann, the KILLER, is not guilty because Martin, the VICTIM, did something out of line. Please explain exactly what he did to raise this situation to a level of deadly force.

Oh wait, you can't, because Z initiated the use of force by chasing him, then escalated the use of force by using his gun.

Really baffling how people can blame the victim so much, how is it that our culture has gotten to this point?

No dude, the cops were just going along with the racist murderer so that they could help build their case. or something

Again, come on son. I was not born yesterday.

Is there any chance, even a remote one, that had the situation been reversed, and a black man stalked and killed a white teenager for "looking suspicious," even claiming self-defense, that he would not have been immediately arrested and likely charged with homicide? I mean really...

Wait, what should victim have done to avoid being murdered in this set of facts?

FYP

Ask NeBlis.

Yeah...I've only read a few news stories that were themselves somewhat ambiguous but I have trouble seeing any obvious mistake by the deceased.

/facepalm
Those were two different statements. The first is what Neblis was getting at. The second is what CC is accusing him of. I DON'T believe, from what I've read thus far, the victim did anything to deserve being accosted and shot and I don't think NeBlis does either.

OK I guess I can see how you would think that but your completely wrong.


Ok fair enough, and I agree. Look I realize that this is an emotional case etc etc. Lets take it from my point of view and maybe you will get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

I live and work in an "urban" high crime area. My neighborhood is the root of southern hip hop and all the culture that that personifies and glorifies. People are assaulted and killed or maimed here all the time. Now I am on the edge of the worst parts but the 3 neighborhood to the north of me are in the top 10 most violent in the nation. I carry a gun everyday and train myself in self defense as much as is feasible.
Part of taking responsibility for your own safety involves going through numerous "what if" type scenarios. It changes your mindset on the world. What you see as paranoia I see as life skills. When something like this happens I go through it from all the angles. When I ask myself what I would have done if I were Zimmerman my answer is "nothing like what he did. When I ask myself what I would have done if I were Martin my answer is "not very much of what he did"
This case is all over forums related to guns, and came up yesterday in an army navy store where I was buying ammo for an old soviet rifle that I have. The consensus as I see it among the "gun community" is that this is a terrible tragedy, likely the fault of an idiot. Te questions we are asking are the same as yours, what happened and how could it have been avoided. I'm sorry if my thinking out loud offended you.

What would you have done when you were 17?

as far as we know this is 100% true. I'm just trying to talk about what happens as a result and what we can learn from the situation.

running though the backs of houses and calling his GF instead of the cops is all I see. Most of which can be chalked up to youth and bravado at most. So sad but I wish the kid had more street smarts in this case.

That hardly matters to what Neblis is talking about. You do realize he said:

The idea that the kid made mistakes, or not, is nothing more than Neblis going through a mental masturbation ritual of how Neblis (not the kid) would react to this situation. Nice job at reaching straight for the racist card though. Is it possible for you to be more of an ass?

I'm not sure. I was pointing out that his thinking "this guy is shady, lemme try to run into this dark area and loose him" was likely short sighted. I was taught allot of things as a child that most others were not, so it is hard for me to judge. Personally at age 17 if I had goten on a scuffle with this guy he would have caught a knife in a vital area almost immediately.

a similar story happened in jersey recently,, the bergen record, which is that areas newspaper, had to file a suit against the PD to get them to release video footage... here is the story on that. there is video of him turning himself in , and later on he fleeing the scene

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Garf..._shooting.html

I've heard that Zimmerman is 5'2" and ~250 lbs and the victim substantially less than that. Were I in Martin's shoes and I believed some fat weirdo was following/chasing me, I'd start running, preferably back towards a public place. I'd also call the police while doing it.


*CAVEAT FOR THOSE TOO EMOTIONALLY CHARGED TO THINK CLEARLY*
I don't believe Martin not doing the above justifies/mitigates/vindicates Zimmerman in any way shape or form.

Historic day in Politards.

random nittery: His name is Trayvon, not Trayvan.

FY nittery.

Ooops. Fixed.