The Tragic Death of Trayvon Martin - Page 3 - Politics and Economics

NeBlis · 03-19-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dids

When you're calling 911 about the scary guy in a hoody first, you're not "walking around the neighborhood". Come on now.

facepalm.jpg again that is not what rjoe was saying and not what I was saying either. he was talking broadly about a duty to retreat.

DblBarrelJ · 03-19-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

This is the part of the proposed Iowa law I disagree with. It's not about whether you fear for your or someone else's life it's whether you think the person you're about to kill is about to commit a 'serious felony'. Here that can mean assault with injury so in theory I would be able to shoot someone I think is about to punch someone in the face or something like that. It's way too broad IMO.

I don't think it will pass as there and we already have laws set up the way you describe here which I think are adequate.

are you sure about the bolded?

GA uses the term "Forcible Felony" which encompasses these specific offenses:

Murder
Armed Robbery (or Aggravated Assault, inclusive)
Kidnapping
Rape
Aggravated Child Molestation
Aggravated Sodomy
Aggravated Sexual Battery

Which I'm fine with. Now obviously it isn't good to legalize deadly force as a defense against simple battery. Sometimes Serious Felony and "Forcible Felony" are used interchangeably.

NeBlis · 03-19-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

are you sure about the bolded?

Quote:

obviously it isn't good to legalize deadly force as a defense against simple battery.

Although I agree you have to admit that you and I both know quite a few ways to kill someone with what could be considered "simple battery" and even a simple punch can easily kill if it hits right.

will1530 · 03-19-2012, 02:06 PM

http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Coo...k&hbill=HF2215

Link to the Iowa bill.

Quote:

As used in this section, “violent felony” means any felonious sexual abuse involving compulsion or the use of a weapon or any felonious assault, murder, kidnapping, robbery, arson, or burglary.

A person who reasonably believes that a violent felony is being or will imminently be perpetrated is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force against the perpetrator or perpetrators to prevent or terminate the perpetration of that felony.

I'm thinking simple battery may not apply.

[Phill] · 03-19-2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

"We are taking a beating over this," said [police chief Bill] Lee, who defends the investigation. "This is all very unsettling. I'm sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he'd probably do things differently. I'm sure Trayvon would, too."

Yeah man, walking to 7-Eleven to buy some skittles and an iced tea while being black is something im sure Trayvon would have loved to do differently in hindsight.

ikestoys · 03-19-2012, 02:17 PM

Yeah for some reason i doubt that he did nothing other than go to 711.

Huehuecoyotl · 03-19-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brons

Doesn't it depend on the state? But that's why I added imo at the end.

Maybe, I only know because the news report I read said specifically that in that state 9-1-1 operators' commands are legally suggestions and not lawful commands that have to be followed or however it's phrased.

I agree with the sentiment though.

Huehuecoyotl · 03-19-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Yeah for some reason i doubt that he did nothing other than go to 711.

Why's that?

DblBarrelJ · 03-19-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeBlis

Although I agree you have to admit that you and I both know quite a few ways to kill someone with what could be considered "simple battery" and even a simple punch can easily kill if it hits right.

those types of situations occur infrequently enough that they could be articulated in court.

[Phill] · 03-19-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Yeah for some reason i doubt that he did nothing other than go to 711.

Do please feel free to continue.

He went to get a drink and some sweets during the halftime of an NBA game.

rjoefish · 03-19-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeBlis

LDO in this specific case.

What rjoefish was implying is that no one has the right to be armed or to protect themselves and that they should run away and hide in their house if bad guys try to kill them or others.

That's not at all what I was trying to imply. I was trying to say that the authorities should be able to take into account, in this specific case at least, that this dude just saw a 'suspicious' person walking through the neighborhood and decided to follow/confront him after being told not to by police dispatchers.

rjoefish · 03-19-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ

are you sure about the bolded?

GA uses the term "Forcible Felony" which encompasses these specific offenses:

Murder
Armed Robbery (or Aggravated Assault, inclusive)
Kidnapping
Rape
Aggravated Child Molestation
Aggravated Sodomy
Aggravated Sexual Battery

Which I'm fine with. Now obviously it isn't good to legalize deadly force as a defense against simple battery. Sometimes Serious Felony and "Forcible Felony" are used interchangeably.

Quote:

Originally Posted by will1530

http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Coo...k&hbill=HF2215

Link to the Iowa bill.

I'm thinking simple battery may not apply.

Assault with 'serious' injury in Iowa is a felony. I'm not sure what constitutes 'serious' here as if you only cause 'bodily injury or mental illness' it's an aggravated misdemeanor.

DblBarrelJ · 03-19-2012, 02:45 PM

I for one don't want to see legal ramifications attached to a refusal to obey a 911 operator.

It's just common sense. When a police officer is on scene, that's different because now you've got someone utilizing all of their senses to make decisions.

The only sense the 911 operator is using is audible.

Huehuecoyotl · 03-19-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Phill]

Do please feel free to continue.

He went to get a drink and some sweets during the halftime of an NBA game.

This can only be said in a British accent, at least in my head.

DblBarrelJ · 03-19-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Assault with 'serious' injury in Iowa is a felony. I'm not sure what constitutes 'serious' here as if you only cause 'bodily injury or mental illness' it's an aggravated misdemeanor.

Sounds like "Aggravated Battery" here, which constitutes permanent disfigurement.

I'm fine with that in that scenario.