This


Buy the ticket, take the ride.

Yes. He's naive and lacks personal insight. Do we know of any Americans disobeying orders to kill civilians in Vietnam? Do we know of any soldiers who refused to torture people at Abu Ghraib?

It happens, but American soldiers do not have an exceptional record in refusing to kill women and children. Vietnam, we were killing and wounding about 1,000 civilians per month. Korea, we knocked out a dam for the express purpose of destroying the civilian food infrastructure. The pilots did as instructed, releasing a flood of Biblical proportions. WWII, the Brits and Americans were pioneers in mass air attacks on civilian populations. And your guy says he won't shoot civilians face to face. Big deal.

My Lai did have a couple heroes who trained their guns on the American troops carrying out the massacre.

Your guy is missing the point of the professor's lesson: the intense pressure on soldiers to maintain unit cohesion, the callousness troops develop, and the all-encompassing world that nationalism provides which makes it all right. If he says automatically "Oh I'd shoot my officer," he's just sounding off without reflection. If he says "I'd shoot myself first," then we know he appreciates the stakes.

The hundreds of millions that corporations gave to her and Obama campaigns -- you know more than the corporate CEOs? You are off the deep end.

Take the Oathkeeper stuff to another thread imo.

The funny thing is that socialists and communists were almost an example par excellence in US history of people who were incredibly moral in the face of social bigotry, social pressure, violence by law enforcement who of course were obeying lawful and unlawful orders, some socialists and communists stood up against injustice in America till their deaths and whose murderers were acquitted because the victims were "socialists". Now of course the judges and law enforcement knew better than to allow those acquittals but who knows what people will do when faced with those situations with so much social pressure.

Two young males met. Both were reported to be violent. One is now dead. Sad.

Come on now.

A guy beaten within an inch of his life sustains super serious injuries, yet the cops didn't have to rush him to the ER or anything like that.

If he was mounted and beaten to a pulp like half the people ITT wanted, he ldo would have been taken to the hospital immediately and the case probably wouldn't be national news.

It was NEVER EVER likely that Tray beat the hell out of Zimm or was about to kill him when he was shot. I, and many others ITT, applied Occam's razor and basic logic to extrapolate from what we knew that that was almost certainly not the case.

I've pointed out all along how unlikely that was to smart people (really didn't take much intelligence), and now, SHOCKER, it turns out I was right.

Or do you think your theory was perfectly reasonable and you just lost the flip?


Note also, It's the same thought process that some ITT are using to now claim Tray probably started the confrontation when that is and always has been extraordinarily unlikely.

Nice article, not sure why it took the police so long to question the kid. This article leans towards the cops actively trying to get Zimmerman which is against conventional wisdom. I wonder when its all said and done if Zimmerman gets his and the cops don't look as bad as the DA.
I reserve the right to change my mind ldo as I have several times throughout this story.

Video of GZ's arrest release - it's hard to see but he doesn't exactly look too worse for the wear post encounter with trayvon

OMG his head is all bashed in!

There absolutely were cops on the ground trying to do the right thing. They hit a wall. Hopefully all will be revealed soon.

As a group, no. However, like any group that has libertarian overtones they are going to attract more than their fair share of nuts, and those nuts include more than their fair share of racists.

This.

Most of the soldiers doing the work likely had the attitude that 'they'd shoot the officer' before. The social psych that was worked on them was not implemented over night but during a long process. People tend to pass over that process that got people on board with the plan.

b

What was the problem with the article? I thought it was good. And yes, if there is a police state in this country (which there already is obv) it will be at the hands of the police. It was surprising to see an article like that imo.

In SWAT magazine no less, a magazine LEO's all over the country read.

what the monkey **** has happened to this thread?