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Old 11-09-2016, 01:31 PM   #101
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Gavin Newsom should win CA governorship in 2018, he's probably too fresh to run in 2020. Who else is on the bench?
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:33 PM   #102
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Gavin Newsom should win CA governorship in 2018, he's probably too fresh to run in 2020. Who else is on the bench?
a guy with literally no experience just won the presidency

there is no more "too fresh to run" argument. My local dog catcher is apparently qualified to be president
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:33 PM   #103
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

I've already declared my candidacy
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:36 PM   #104
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

"Deplorables" was a WOAT campaign move, and it almost certainly cost her the election. You don't get white women in Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc. to vote for you by calling them and their families irredeemable *******s.

Bernard, at least, would not have made this blunder. Hillary herself almost certainly suppressed youth turnout. The Obama coalition tried to tell you in the primary, but the "coronation" was on. They were enthused for Obama, but not for the zero message bull**** that Clinton has peddled the entire race.

Maybe the Dems can get some young good looking white guy who doesn't insult Grandma. That guy who lost the Senate race is MO would be worth a look, imo. You need to bleed Trumps coalition NOW for 2020, or two terms is donezo.

Last edited by stinkubus; 11-09-2016 at 01:37 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:36 PM   #105
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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bobman, thanks for the good posts.

Bernie fans, wondering if Bernie would have won is a thought exercise. The character attacks on Clinton become political attacks on Bernie ("emails" become "socialism" and Bernie spends the whole campaign on his back foot trying to give an educated explanation of Democratic Socialism as a concept like he did in the primaries while Republicans are like "LOL MAGAAAAA"), maybe he fades them and wins, maybe he loses anyway and in that hypothetical world everyone's like "GOD YOU IDIOTS NOMINATED THIS ***** EXTREMIST WINGNUT INSTEAD OF THE CENTRIST THAT WOULD HAVE CLEANED THIS UP", much like it's easy to be like "GOD YOU IDIOTS NOMINATED CLINTON, WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU" in this world where she ran a campaign that was, depending on which measuring stick you want to use, a 3:1 to 6:1 favorite on election day.

We know now, given that Clinton lost, that nominating literally anyone else might have worked out better, but it also might have gotten us the same result.
None of this speaks to Dems who just did not bother to vote because they saw HC as such an establishment stooge.

I cant remember what state it was, but Trump had only put 100K on the number Romney achieved but HC had dropped the Dem vote by ~500K.

I think there has to be some takeaway from the fact that we all laughed at the the repubs for nominating a risky non main stream candidate, we all laughed at the death of the republican party, we all laughed at Trumps 5% election equity.

Now Trump is president, and the usual suspects seem to be all ready lining up to say hey next time the democrats had better not select an "unelectable" non mainstream candidate.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:37 PM   #106
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

what was bernie's message, exactly? I know trump's, I know clinton's. What was his theme that held together his candidacy?
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:38 PM   #107
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Expanding the mother ****ing welfare state you nimrod.

And he would also have the benefit of getting to tell everyone he wasn't Trump. The problem with Hillary is that they didn't care.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:39 PM   #108
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Bernie "Expand the mother ****ing welfare state you nimrod" Sanders?

I don't recall that one.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:41 PM   #109
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

What do you think free college, an increased minimum wage, etc. are?
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:43 PM   #110
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

The most obvious criticism of Bernie that I can think of is that he was so singularly focused on one idea that he couldn't always speak well on other issues. So if you don't know what Bernie's message was, I feel like that says more about your focus than Bernie's.

His message was economic populism: take back Washington from the Billionaire class (i.e anti-Citizen's united and etc), tax the wealthy, rein in the banks, expand government services...
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:45 PM   #111
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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The truly grim fact for this morning is that, even if we survive four years of Trump's Visigothic occupation of Washington, there's nothing particularly to look forward to on the horizon. It's abundantly clear that the Dems will pivot further left to the Sanders/Warren wingnut types, and they have nothing really to offer.

In a perfect world, the message that should have sunk Trump is his record of spewing hate towards women and minorities. This is real life though, so the message that was practically going to sink Trump is that everything is going fine and it would be insane to turn the reins of power over to a petty neophyte who may or may not be a pawn of hostile foreign interests. But, crucially, the Dems have robbed themselves of the ability to make that case, largely because they are burrowing into the same rabbit hole that the Tea Party took the GOP down, that the system is hopelessly corrupt, that "neoliberalism" is a cancer, that we need a revolution, etc., etc.

Trump's victory really represents a total victory for the structural critique of capitalism that the left has been pushing for decades. Trade is so toxic that HRC had to walk away from a landmark FTA that she negotiated, even when unemployment is <5% on election day. Take that, global capital! The overlooked part is that the left doesn't really have any alternative to replace the neoliberal order, just a grab-bag of random terrible nonsense policies ($15 min wage, free college, etc.) and a vague hope that we can trim 15% off of our GDP/c and become Germany.

Ironically, the one area where the leftist critique is correct and the system is broken is structural inequality/social justice, and of course that cause has been comprehensively crushed.
This is a very good post. I agree with the vast majority of it.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:50 PM   #112
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Social welfare and the willingness to meaningfully build bridges would've swayed enough in the Midwest. She took Trump's white nationalism and turned it into an asset. I've got a feeling the Bern campaign would've made it a net negative to him on election day.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:52 PM   #113
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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Now Trump is president, and the usual suspects seem to be all ready lining up to say hey next time the democrats had better not select an "unelectable" non mainstream candidate.
I'm not saying "don't nominate Bernie". I'm saying "don't act like Bernie had this in the bag". Like, take your example state where HRC lost 500k votes vs. Obama 2012. Bernie couldn't turn out enough Democrats in the primary to vote for him over Hillary, why does he suddenly turn out more Democrats in the general?

Maybe he does, but nobody should act like it's a given.

My posts are mostly directed at the sentiment of one angry gentleman that isn't even posting ITT, so maybe this is misplaced.

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Dems who voted HRC instead of Bernie I hope you're ****ING happy. **** this ****. I'm shook AF and now entering anger mode
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the worst "i told you so" of my life, and probably my last since prob gonna die in ww3 in a few yrs
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Man Hillary sure did crush Bernie in all these states that are solid red today. Sick! Good job good effort.

EINVrovnwrovbw9rvb9vrvrve
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:54 PM   #114
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

During the nom process all you liberals and the liberal media was saying how divided and torn the republican party was.

then, the RNC, they all eventually backed trump, even the high officials who hated him.


on the other hand you had a DNC trying to tilt the scales and at times almost rig it against bernie so they could get HRC, their prized possession, a run to the white house.

Dems have to regroup here in the next couple months because with red in the oval office, house and senate, they gotta try to defend what they can for the next 1.5-2 years
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:55 PM   #115
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

Dude he campaigned hard for Bernie. He's invested. Cut him some slack. We all ****ing lost, and in a very big way. If the Repubs go nuclear with the judicial filibuster we could end up with three justices who are opposed to the civil rights act within one term.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:56 PM   #116
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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what was bernie's message, exactly? I know trump's, I know clinton's. What was his theme that held together his candidacy?
i felt he had a good message.

to me it was anti-establishment. through and ****ing throug. which si why he was popular with the young crowd. he was against the status quo and didnt have any ties to washington and banks.


that was his biggest pitch and that def resonated with a lot of his voters
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:01 PM   #117
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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I keep hearing this derp and similar.

Yes, Bernie was polling good heads up vs Trump. This completely ignores any vetting that would have happened and his drop as people learned more about him.

Additionally and MORE importantly: HRC was polling good vs Trump after the 3rd debate.

White nationalism won the day. Bernie would not attract that crowd.
Exposed rigged primary system had nothing to do with voter apathy on the dem side?

Perception that government has gotten way over the top enacting ridiculous stuff like o-care, along with dem apathy that they only could support a failure of a candidate were the 2 biggest reasons dems lost.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:02 PM   #118
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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I mean better at serving the country. I agree they are miles better at winning elections because they are strong, and while democrats are spineless pussies.
In the last three presidential election cycles, the democrats have been running better campaigns. They are strong.....formidable actually.

If the democrats stopped trying to figure out how to get the electorate to swallow their platform and instead built their platform around what the people actually want, they would win.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:02 PM   #119
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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a guy with literally no experience just won the presidency

there is no more "too fresh to run" argument. My local dog catcher is apparently qualified to be president
Long experience in elective office is what makes these politicians unable to think outside the box.

Trump has tons of experience in the real world at a high level. The last non-politician without elective office experience but real world experience at a high level was Ike and he did quite well.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:03 PM   #120
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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i felt he had a good message.

to me it was anti-establishment. through and ****ing throug. which si why he was popular with the young crowd. he was against the status quo and didnt have any ties to washington and banks.


that was his biggest pitch and that def resonated with a lot of his voters
With honest DNC + super PAC support Sanders would easily have won the swing states Hillary lost, except perhaps Ohio.

But Hillary was calling the shots so it doesn't matter.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:06 PM   #121
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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With honest DNC + super PAC support Sanders would easily have won the swing states Hillary lost, except perhaps Ohio.

But Hillary was calling the shots so it doesn't matter.

Him and TRUMP were surging and they both had the "anti-establishment" train going for them.


I think its really close but I actually would agree that bernie beats Trump in a narrow win. bernie wins MI and WI at least
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:09 PM   #122
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

I could see PA feeling the Bern, too. Metro Philly might've dug it.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:14 PM   #123
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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His message was economic populism: take back Washington from the Billionaire class (i.e anti-Citizen's united and etc), tax the wealthy, rein in the banks, expand government services...
Right, so huge overlap with Trump who also has large demographic advantages on who that message resonates with (non college whites).
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:31 PM   #124
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

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You slappies are going to try to nominate Hillary again next time around, aren't you. Assuming we still have elections in 2020.
They want to compromise even more. Paul Ryan for the Democratic nomination in 2020.
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:42 PM   #125
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Re: The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

No no john McCain haven't you been paying attention
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