hot damn chez has learned nothing

The current one is sublime. His typical post is

"You want it to be one way."

See here's where I don't get if I'm really that bad at explaining myself or if intellectual dishonesty is just a normal part of discourse here.

I DO think Trumpkins are wrong. I also think every single person who voted for him is an utter moron (I know... D'oh then why did you vote for him? Guffaw haw-haw!). But I can think someone is wrong while still understanding why they made the mistake.

Most everyone here assumes it's racism. First, I think I could make a reasonable argument that at least part of what you call racism is really more having to do with economic oppression and is of a monetary class warfare in nature (I think the fact that middle class America is so skittish about how quickly they're losing ground bears this out and it just keeps getting worse for those underneath).

But secondly, I can understand how many white suburban folks don't feel they are responsible for things like Citizens United, all the gerrymandering, or voter suppression laws. They've hired, promoted, and worked along side minorities every single day. A vast majority of them are guilty of not understanding their white privilege. You call that racist. I call it ignorant. Regardless, for at least the past 8 years there's no denying that progressives were making terrific strides. Attention was being given to the systemic racism and the outright murdering of black people by police and the nation cared. Gay marriage was made federally legal in all 50 states. Abortion and women's rights were all going in the right direction.

But that wasn't good enough for many progressives and it SHOULDN'T have been good enough! The fight should continue on until every last ethnicity, person of color, gender, and sexual orientation is afforded true equality. And this is something which almost all suburban white folks would agree with. The problem started when instead of continuing to build on this past progress, ultra liberals started BLAMING suburban white folks for every problem afflicting blacks and minorities in America. And the suburban white folks just didn't see it that way. Again, I don't fully see it that way either and think at least part of it is economical, which means it's also political, which means that DEMOCRATS are part of the problem too!

Most suburban white folks don't have time to sit around and watch MSNBC and post on 2p2 all day long. They felt they were doing their part by voting Democrat and got sick of being blamed. They certainly weren't about to apologize or feel guilty for being white. So a few too many either chose to sit this election out or voted for Trump.

The end.

If you're voting with the ****ers that put Donald ****ing Trump in the whitehouse, then yes, your core beliefs have changed (assuming they were different before you decided to start voting with the Trump voting ****ers... which they most likely werent... seeing as how you voted for Trump.)

What I'm saying is, your statement can be completely right, that your core values haven't changed and you've changed political parties, but that's much more likely because you disingenuously voted Democrat than for any other reason.

What a giant ****ing load of bull****. How did it feel blowing this self satisfied load all over your belly?

By the way if you have "switched" political parties and now vote republican, THESE are the people you now vote with. Congrats on being awful!

https://cbmw.org/topics/news-and-ann...cal-sexuality/

I don't think *many* do, no. Sure, there's always going to be those (that even I would consider) racist who blame minorities for all their ills (in much the same way that 2p2ers blame white people for all of minorities' ills). But I truly think these numbers are far less than what the average 2p2er would say. If all I did was read 2p2, I'd be shocked every time I saw a black, Mexican, or Latino living above the poverty line.

I think the vast majority of whites would think the same way I would if I lost out on a job to a minority. They must've had more experience and/or were better qualified. Period.

The thing you're bad at is identifying political views and appropriately categorizing them. For example, you seem to think that you can claim to oppose Donald Trump despite voting for him and also agreeing with ~all of his rhetoric.

About WHAT? What are they wrong about? If they aren't racist, if they ARE the victims of an elite class of money hoarders(which, oddly, does not include billionaires and large corporations, who need lower taxes and less regulation. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM), if the left is out of control with political correctness, if Dems are hurting minority by giving them food stamps for votes....

WHAT THE **** ARE THEY WRONG ABOUT?

What the **** do you actually disagree with them about? Because you damn sure disagree with us about a whole lot.

The reason you can understand that is because you agree with it. This constant, constant dishonesty, this utter ****ing inability to say what you mean and deal with the consequences, it's why you get yelled at.

OK and we're just going to get to the part where you provide a ****ing example of what you're talking about. I must have missed the Hillary Clinton stump speeches to black people about how all their problems were because of the dentists and divorce lawyers of exurban Cincinnati.

Suburban white folk didn't ****ing vote Democrat! You damn sure didn't. You want me to do a search for your ****ing posts about how Obamacare was a failure and you wanted a free market across state lines?

I didn't say I was a Republican. For now, I'm identifying as a Libertarian for lack of a better term. At the very least, independent. What I learned through this presidential election cycle is that Democrats can be just as corrupt as Republicans. It's just that Republicans are more brazen about it.

Remember when this guy cried about Trolly's recommendation that he'd be more comfortable posting at Stormfront?? For ****'s sake

"biblical manhood" sounds like what you'd say about your junk if it were really tiny and you were trying to recruit some womenz into your christian cult

My read was Lestat was obv an HRC voter but he's surrounded by trumpers, like, even his wife and kids perhaps, to the point that the cognitive dissonance broke his brain.

However, I think he's about to prove me wrong once and for all.

Yeah, crooked Hillary, amiright? But her emailzzzzzz? BENGHAZZZZZIIIII.

**** man, you suck at this. There are ****ing levels to corruption. The democrats simply AREN'T corrupt on the level that the republicans are. Have you paid a single ****ing second of attention to ANYTHING that has happened since January 20?

Enjoy being an "independent." I'm sure it will make your conscience feel better after you vote Trump 2020. "Both sides had a chance at my vote, but the republicans and democrats were both Sooooo corrupt I had no choice but to vote for someone with presidential experience."

What a ****ing joke.

p.s.


I mean, he's been a libertarian since always but my read was he recently Got Woke and finally noticed the den of despair surrounding him.

The idea that talking about systemic racism is "blaming white people" is more explicitly racist than even elected Republicans go, he really shouldn't consider himself a member of the GOP. He's an independent white nationalist to the right of the GOP who was brought into the fold by Trump.

Aye, the blame-white-people stuff is what did it for me.

We are ALL victims of the elite class of money hoarders(which, oddly, does not include billionaires... I stop there because I disagree that the corporate tax rate shouldn't be lowered and think some reasonable reduction of regulations would be a good thing.

I don't disagree with you anywhere near as much as you think. But I like to play devil's advocate when I see one side overplaying their hand. Go ahead. Try me. Make your best case that BLM is nothing but a hate group and I'll do a better job of convincing you it's not than you ever could with someone who actually believed that it is.

Okay, here's something you can enlighten me on. But you probably won't because a). You don't have the tolerance, and b). you'd have to concede that I really didn't vote for Trump. But go ahead and explain how I'm responsible for Citizen's United, gerrymandering, and voter suppression. If you can do that, you'll crush many of my views immediately. If I were a congressman I'd vote to get rid of Citizen's United in a New York minute, yet I'm responsible for it as a non politician who (to my knowledge) never voted for anyone who was for it? Explain that.

Just like I must've missed the part where she had any kind of AN ACTUAL MESSAGE.

A one time quick Google search didn't provide anything useful in the way of "suburban whites". It did show that 58% of whites voted for Trump while 37% (of which I'm part of!) chose HRC. But I do know that more uneducated whites were Trump supporters than educated. When I think of "suburban whites", I think of educated voters. I'm from a large city where much of suburbia is generally upper income and educated. This probably isn't the case in middle America.

I believe NO ONE should die, suffer, or go without, for lack of medical care. I feel very strongly about that. Just because I disagree with a solution doesn't mean I'm taking the opposite side of an issue. That's YOUR big ****ing mistake. Thinking that just because someone doesn't agree with your solutions they are by default, the enemy. And I don't think Democrats can afford to be making too many more enemies.

I'm not sure there is much of a fuzzy middle. I think there are a lot of relatively disinterested people who may incline to radical positions. They may vote like a fuzzy middle (i.e. they don't vote), but they aren't in the middle. And a lot of people have a mixture of more radical views which aren't contradictory, but don't align with any electoral option.

The right isn't monolithic, at least nationally. Trump just got enough electoral votes to beat HRC. He's a natural for the evangelicals who are mostly as full of **** as he is.

That's a pretty damn good read. Remind me never to bluff/shove the river on you!

However, it's more some people I used to consider friends, and one in particular I still do because we've been close forever. If he ever saw my texting threads and how hard I rail against Trump and racism, Fly's brain would assplode from the shock. Much of the arguments I make on here come from him in fact and I use the responses because I'm at my wits end with how to get through to him.

My kids, especially one, is almost identical to Fly to the point where it seems to me that she denies facts. I don't like that. To me, facts and what is true are important above all.

rofl

How can this possibly be true? He mocked a disabled reporter, bragged about sexual molesting women, and said that he'd never ask god for forgiveness (or something like that). I would think he's the antithesis of what evangelicals stand for. Not to mention his wanting to block all refugees, which seems a very un-Christian thing to do. Kasich, Cruz, Rubio, and even Catholic Santorum seem much more aligned with them than Trump.

Lol, so now the claim is "I'm just playing devils advocate guysssssss."

Isn't this kind of a rehash of the Mark Lilla thing that's been going around that Democrats need to appeal to some non racial universal American ideal instead of appealing to separate groups to regain power, and by implication kind of avoid pointing too much to any specific racial issues, but more that we're failing some universal minimal level of commitment to our citizens?

And yet they're his strongest supporters. In reality I think Trump is exactly what evangelicals want underneath all that God talk; macho, above and looking down on women as objects that know their place, wealthy and confident of the righteousness of his wealth.

You don't just talk about systemic racism and you are very clearly even less concerned with arriving at racial equality solutions. Be honest. If the choice was calmly explaining to a white cop why shooting an unarmed black person is wrong or shaming him over his racism, that black guy's gonna die, right?