The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party - Page 198 - Politics and Economics

I accept that's some people's view.

Many others disagree but coming back to the original point dvaut raised. If the norm was to agree with you and behave that way then lestat's point would have more force - in reality your view is so on the margins in the real world that in general it cannot be blamed for the success of trump.

How much difference Clinton's gaffe made is moot. The deeper problem may be that it reflects the real problems of such a polarised and divisive society.

08-24-2017 , 07:53 AM

#4928

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Her mistake was apologizing.

Yep. I'm pretty sure "mistakes that Clinton made" is probably the most well understood subject among liberals and leftists, the intraleft debate was consumed by that subject for months after November. Since chezlaw isn't a liberal or a lefist and obviously doesn't read any of our publications he missed that because he was too busy protecting Sandy Hook truthers from getting owned online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Recognising mistakes is better than the alternative.

Your approach to bigotry, as a moderator of a forum, resulted in widespread explicit white supremacy. So yeah, one of us does need to have a "rethink".

08-24-2017 , 07:57 AM

#4929

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

How much difference Clinton's gaffe made is moot.

Not sure why you're bringing it up, then.

08-24-2017 , 08:18 AM

#4930

Money2Burn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

I accept that's some people's view.

Many others disagree but coming back to the original point dvaut raised. If the norm was to agree with you and behave that way then lestat's point would have more force - in reality your view is so on the margins in the real world that in general it cannot be blamed for the success of trump.

How much difference Clinton's gaffe made is moot. The deeper problem may be that it reflects the real problems of such a polarised and divisive society.

Chez looks at a situation where a guy ran for President and won running on an openly white supremacist platform, and he looks at that and comes to the conclusion that the real issue is that one time the opposition candidate decided to address it directly. Chez has a remarkable ability to look at a situation and come to the wrong conclusion every ****ing time. He's the Lou Gehrig of bad political takes.

Last edited by Money2Burn; 08-24-2017 at 08:47 AM.

08-24-2017 , 08:41 AM

#4931

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,890

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Not sure why you're bringing it up, then.

Because it's an example of the fringe behavior making it into the front line of serious politics. Very hard to know how much it mattered but unlike the fringe stuff, it could plausibly have shifted more than a few votes here and there.

08-24-2017 , 08:51 AM

#4932

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,890

Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Well I didn't do that at all but I do think Clinton made a gaffe and she clearly knew it.

We have to deal with the situation as it is. The fact a large swathe of the population are so extreme doesn't mean the approach of calling the electorate names becomes anything like a good strategy.

08-24-2017 , 08:55 AM

#4933

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

That would mean it's not a moot point.

08-24-2017 , 09:00 AM

#4934

Money2Burn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

chezlaw when you were given a low traffic internet subforum to moderate the admins had to close it because Nazis were making "guffs" about Heather Heyer's death. Your theories about how to combat racial extremism got put into practice, and exactly what the silly kids said would happen did happen.

Go back to SMP.

08-24-2017 , 09:04 AM

#4935

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,890

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

That would mean it's not a moot point.

It's moot as to whether it made a significant difference to the result. Personally I doubt it did. others may think it did. We all seem to agree it makes a difference. Some of you think she should have stuck with it.

08-24-2017 , 09:11 AM

#4936

ChrisV

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

There may be UK/US confusion going on here:

Quote:

moot point (plural moot points)

1. An issue that is subject to, or open for, discussion or debate, to which no satisfactory answer is found; originally, one to be definitively determined by an assembly of the people.

2. An issue regarded as potentially debatable, but no longer practically applicable. Although the idea may still be worth debating and exploring academically, and such discussion may be useful for addressing similar issues in the future, the idea has been rendered irrelevant for the present issue.

Usage notes

The first usage given above is the original meaning of the phrase. It remains the meaning most commonly understood in British English.

The second usage given is modern and is the meaning more commonly understood in American English, possibly because of the association with moot court.

I know this because in Australia we use the American meaning, which is unusual. Usually when meanings differ we go with the UK.

08-24-2017 , 09:13 AM

#4937

Trolly McTrollson

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Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

It's moot as to whether it made a significant difference to the result. Personally I doubt it did.

OK, so we both agree that it didn't matter. Good talk.

08-24-2017 , 09:16 AM

#4938

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

The phrase derives originally from "moot" meaning a meeting, like "kingsmoot" in game of thrones. Thus, it was literally something that should be discussed at an assembly of people.

themoreyouknow.jpg

08-24-2017 , 09:23 AM

#4939

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,890

Thanks Chris. I will try to avoid 'moot'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

OK, so we both agree that it didn't matter. Good talk.

The approach matters for the future. You and fly want the name calling and personal attacks on the electorate to become more mainstream don't you? - then it would really matter.

08-24-2017 , 09:43 AM

#4940

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,772

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

The approach matters for the future.

OK, so you don't think it's a moot point then.

08-24-2017 , 09:56 AM

#4941

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,890

True.

The one point being moot does not make all points moot.

08-24-2017 , 10:04 AM

#4942

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

OK, so you don't think it's a moot point then.

It doesn't look like there's going to be a mooting of the minds here.

(See ChrisV's posts)

08-24-2017 , 11:34 AM

#4943

iron81

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 17,729

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

So they don't see the sin of wanting the wall to be "explicit public xenophobia", they see it as a lower level issue, a politician overpromising.

100% true for me. The Wall is pretty far down the list of stuff I hate about Trump. I liked Obama's immigration policy as long as one recognizes the "deporter in chief" label was unwarranted.

08-24-2017 , 02:21 PM

#4944

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

It's like a cow's opinion.

08-24-2017 , 02:54 PM

#4945

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

2018 House Forecast

cliffs: doesn't look good

08-25-2017 , 06:27 PM

#4946

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

treatment works for like 10% of the ppl. theres really no solution.

decriminalize it and make it safe and affordable but lol at that ever happening.

allegedly the use of psychadelic mushrooms as treatment for addiction is super effective

i am down with using tax dollars to fund that

if "treatment" is limited only to like, NA/AA and 12 step programs, then yea **** that

08-25-2017 , 06:30 PM

#4947

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

rofl this dude isnt green anymore and i can put him on ignore once again, halle ****in lujah

08-26-2017 , 04:32 AM

#4948

cuserounder

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

2018 House Forecast

cliffs: doesn't look good

Wow, 54% of the vote only gets 47% of the seats. So Dems need to win like 58%? Which can only happen if Trump is at about 25% approval.

GG democracy. Trump's going to get the full four years, plus the opportunity to further suppress votes and collude with Russia before 2020. He may get eight.

08-26-2017 , 04:41 AM

#4949

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

The thing is that you would expect the Supreme Court, conservative or otherwise, to realize that gerrymandering is bad because it sets into motion 1 party rule regardless of popularity, but my sneaking suspicion is that the conservatives on the Supreme Court do not care as long as conservatives are that one party.