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The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

04-20-2017 , 03:20 PM
No? Care to expound on what i have to be ****ing kidding about?
04-20-2017 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HastenDan
Lol where is that?

I was at a park last month and two beat up trucks sped around a couple laps and parked at one point, and they both had MASSIVE flags flying out of their beds. One of course was a simple TRUMP flag, but the other one was a huge communist flag with a spray-painted X through it, which I thought was weird. Like, did they take time to go online and order a huge communist flag, or did they somehow come across it? Do they have more flags and change them up depending on the day? Because surely those dudes have a stash of rebel flags if they are paying up for a communist flag to deface.
It was on the main road to the event center where Bernie was speaking. I don't think they do it every day but DFW is home to those overpass sign people so I'm sure they're all related and have a sign shop somewhere.
04-20-2017 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HastenDan
One thing that is pretty depressing for both the future of the democratic party and for the advancement of progressive ideals is just how fractured the party seems at this point.

PoBoy above is just a small sample of some deep raging BernieHate that is coursing through the veins of a disturbing amount of #StillWithHer democrats.

This can be observed across the liberal digital sphere, and tonight the corporatists and establishment can have a toast to Mission Accomplished.
I sort of disagree with this. I think there's been a lot made about the Democratic fracturing when all coalitions have fractures in them, or else they'd be too small to have political power and when the Republican fractures are way deeper. I think the progressive wing is willing to compromise, Bernie talks about how Obamacare was good but we can do better, unlike the Freedom Caucus that's been torpedoing right leaning legislation for 4 years because it's not draconian enough. Hell they saved Social Security because they wouldn't accept anything but full repeal when Obama was willing to compromise.
04-20-2017 , 04:24 PM
Hue,

I just see so much BernieHate from Hillarycrats that it is depressing. I expected a decent bit as that is natural, but the overall amount is a bit surprising, to the point I think it will have an actual impact on party consolidation and hurt efforts to bring more independents into the fold and help get out the vote and flip seats across all levels of government.
04-20-2017 , 04:43 PM
lol, Bernie has an 80% approval rating among Dems. Where do you see this?
04-20-2017 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
lol, Bernie has an 80% approval rating among Dems. Where do you see this?
Comments across dailykos, democraticunderground, huffpo, reddit, twitter, crooksandliars, salon, slate, politico.

Of course there is always going to be a vocal minority effect and whatnot, just saying that even accounting for that the BernieHate I have witnessed exceeded what I would have estimated.
04-20-2017 , 05:23 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d7afc8487496

Hit piece by the WaPo editorial page. As usual.

Quote:
It all makes Sanders's decision not to back Ossoff even more conspicuous. Perhaps he's much more concerned, as the Journal suggests, in economic progressivism than he is on social issues. But Sanders is really on an island here, threatening to create divisions where none previously existed.
Really? No divisions on economics in the Democratic Party? WaPo, The NYT, The New Democrats and the Rockefeller Republicans thought they had it all worked out and we'd all go along with whatever Alan Greenspan said about economics while the people who aren't wearing $300 shoes can argue about abortion.
04-20-2017 , 05:31 PM
That article is unfair - the 3 bullet points he lists are all dumb - but regarding Ossoff specifically, I agree with this part:

Quote:
Perhaps the strangest thing about this is that Sanders isn't vouching for Ossoff's progressivism even as he's doing so for another Democrat of pretty questionable credentials. That would be Omaha mayoral candidate and former state senator Heath Mello, whom Sanders will campaign with Thursday.

As the Wall Street Journal's Reid J. Epstein and Natalie Andrews note, Mello in 2009 sponsored a bill that would require a woman to look at ultrasound images of her fetus before undergoing an abortion (he still opposes abortion rights). Indeed, it's tough to think of something that progressives would hate more.
Quote:
“If this fellow wins in Nebraska, that would be a shot across the board, that in a state like Nebraska a progressive Democrat can win, that will give hope to folks in other conservative states that perhaps they can win as well,” Sanders said.

That entire justification could just as easily be applied to Ossoff, though. He is, after all, running in a district that Republicans have routinely won with more than 60 percent of the vote. Omaha is in Nebraska, yes, but President Obama won its congressional district and an electoral vote there in 2008, and a Mello victory would hardly be the boost that Ossoff's would be.
Those are both valid points - if Bernie is purity-testing candidates then his test seems off, and if geography provides the exception then it's not clear why a red district in Georgia doesn't make the cut.
04-20-2017 , 05:43 PM
Not to get all tinfoil hat, but could Bernie's noninvolvement with Ossoff be tactical? He lost GA6 in the 2016 primary by over 20 points. Ossoff doesn't seem particularly progressive, so maybe he and Perez talked about it and agreed he wouldn't play a role.
04-20-2017 , 05:44 PM
It was a stupid unfair article and the thing about the guy in Nebraska was irrelevant. Bernie should probably not have said anything about Ossoff, but that's hard to do when someone interviewing you asks you about him. It's not Bernie purity testing people if he's asked and doesn't answer like a loyal party member.

No one, not HRC or Tom Perez or Obama THINKS the party line on every issue. So he can parrot the party line or he can be genuine. No one can do both all the time.
04-20-2017 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
Not to get all tinfoil hat, but could Bernie's noninvolvement with Ossoff be tactical? He lost GA6 in the 2016 primary by over 20 points. Ossoff doesn't seem particularly progressive, so maybe he and Perez talked about it and agreed he wouldn't play a role.
It is super pearl clutchy to whine about it. It's certainly not clear that Bernie calling the guy a progressive would help him here.
04-20-2017 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HastenDan
Comments across dailykos, democraticunderground, huffpo, reddit, twitter, crooksandliars, salon, slate, politico.



Of course there is always going to be a vocal minority effect and whatnot, just saying that even accounting for that the BernieHate I have witnessed exceeded what I would have estimated.


This is stolen from Felix from Chapo (I think), but something like 7% of Democrats dislike Bernie and every single one of them has a Twitter account and a brain parasite.
04-20-2017 , 05:50 PM
Goofy,

The Heath Mello thing is weird and I haven't read enough yet to have a strong opinion and am waiting for some more information to come out. The WSJ article reads a bit suspect.

Planned Parenthood had given Mello a 100% rating, though they likely are not doing too in depth research for those things or looking back to far. One thing is that I am not entirely sure that Bill 675 "requires a woman to look at ultrasound images of her fetus before undergoing an abortion". Here is the bill in question if anyone wants to go over it, I am heading out and cannot at the moment.

Mello's voting record on abortion related bills does seem suspect at first look, though again I do not have the resource atm to comb through to see if some of the votes were compromises heading off worse legislation or not.

So I will wait for someone else to do the legwork and read some analysis later. Curious if Bernie/Perez did not do due diligence on Mello, or if they just don't care, or what the explanation is, so I will wait for any statements / critical analysis. I know that DKos pulled their endorsement of him in light of the information.
04-20-2017 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miajag
This is stolen from Felix from Chapo (I think), but something like 7% of Democrats dislike Bernie and every single one of them has a Twitter account and a brain parasite.
Haha I have seen some variations on this sentiment, and it seems about right.
04-20-2017 , 05:54 PM
I'm taking the WaPo author at their word when writing that post, if they're wrong about Mello being anti-abortion then **** their dishonesty.
04-20-2017 , 05:57 PM
A bill with 22 sponsors in the Nebraska State Legislature 8 years ago relating to one guy he endorsed for mayor of Omaha is something they are digging up to slander Bernie with? That's a real thing?
04-20-2017 , 06:04 PM
I've got a slander for Bernie. He endorsed a presidential candidate who sponsored a flag burning bill.
04-20-2017 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
I'm taking the WaPo author at their word when writing that post, if they're wrong about Mello being anti-abortion then **** their dishonesty.
Guy may very well be anti-abortion. I am just saying that the WSJ piece reads a bit suspect to me, and that I would not be backing up the truck to wager that

Quote:
As the Wall Street Journal's Reid J. Epstein and Natalie Andrews note, Mello in 2009 sponsored a bill that would require a woman to look at ultrasound images of her fetus before undergoing an abortion (he still opposes abortion rights).
is absolutely true.
04-20-2017 , 06:08 PM
****ing Sierra Club! Endorsing Heath Mellow. Bastards.
04-20-2017 , 06:13 PM
The thing is, yeah **** Heath Mellow. But, who gives a **** about Mayor of Omaha?

But the Washington Post just printed something about a candidate for Mayor of Omaha cosponsoring a bill 8 years ago.

Do you think some politician WaPo likes can stand the scrutiny of looking at every aspect of everyone they have ever endorsed? Is that a standard they usually hold people to?
04-20-2017 , 06:14 PM
From the above linked Bill 675:

Quote:
(b) Simultaneously display the ultrasound images so that the woman
may choose to view the ultrasound images or not view the ultrasound images.
The woman shall be informed that the ultrasound images will be displayed so
that she is able to view them. Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed
to require the woman to view the displayed ultrasound images;
? In addition it isn't even perfectly clear to me that the woman is even required to have an ultrasound just prior to an abortion?

Then again this bill references other statutes so I am not exactly sure of what all is going down in Nebraska, nor am I a lawyer or a medical professional or even an armchair expert on abortion rights and standard legal procedures among states.
04-20-2017 , 06:18 PM
Purity testing, bigly. Like okay, he wants to make women look at ultrasounds before abortion, that's bad. But like wtf do you think the Republican wants?!

Btw, judging by the HuffPo article I just read, this ultrasound thing is probably the full extent of his antiabortion history.

Quote:
Mello confirmed in his statement that he is personally opposed to abortion rights in general. “While my faith guides my personal views, as Mayor I would never do anything to restrict access to reproductive health care,” he said in a statement.
100 PERCENT CONFIRMED.

Last edited by AllTheCheese; 04-20-2017 at 06:29 PM.
04-20-2017 , 06:24 PM
Speaking of purity tests

Quote:
This traced back to 2008, a failed run that the Clintons had concluded was due to the disloyalty and treachery of staff and other Democrats. After that race, Hillary had aides create "loyalty scores" (from one for most loyal, to seven for most treacherous) for members of Congress. Bill Clinton since 2008 had "campaigned against some of the sevens" to "help knock them out of office," apparently to purify the Dem ranks heading into 2016
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...mpaign-w477978
04-20-2017 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
1. Complaining about Bernie post-electon. Dude has single-handedly swayed public opinion on healthcare and this is due to what he has done in the past few months.
What is this referring to?
04-20-2017 , 06:57 PM
Well, also regarding abortion, Bernie is a huge supporter of Tom Perriello in Virginia. Perriello voted for the Stupak/Hyde Amendment (would have forced all ACA insurers to drop coverage for abortions, period) while in Congress, which should be a nonstarter for any Democrat, much less any progressive.

He was also endorsed by the NRA, but Bernie is horrible on guns, so whatever on that.

      
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