Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
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Originally Posted by Gamblor
I can't decide what's worse, naïve oversimplifications of a very real and complex problem by either side or snarky, meaningless posts from people that don't add to an otherwise interesting conversation.
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
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Originally Posted by damaci
This...pretty much.
The irony of ironies is the following: As the US keeps fighting totally meaningless wars in the Middle East and depletes its financial and economic power for nothing (What did the US actually gain as a result of its costly entanglements in Iraq and Afghanistan? Let me tell you what, a big fat nothing and trillions of dollars and thousands of lives in the drain. Ironically, yet again, these entanglements did not even manage to make Israel a safer place, which was probably the leading reason why so many neo-conservatives and dumbos from the Israeli lobby jumped on the bandwagon in the first place.), China happily licks its chops and gets more and more business deals and economic contracts in Africa and the Middle East. It is obvious that the real economic and political challenge to the rapidly declining American global position will come from China, and when it comes the US will probably already be a spent force.
The whole Iranian hysteria is a just a repeat of the hysteria regarding Iraq circa 2001-2003. It is a total farce.
You are not seriously suggesting going into Afghanistan was wrong, are you?
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
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Originally Posted by Shoe
You are not seriously suggesting going into Afghanistan was wrong, are you?
Please, you are insulting my intelligence.
Going in, dealing with the problem (which was al-Qaeda, and bin Laden) and going out immediately after that, would be the smart option. What did our beloved neo-conservatives want though, instead of finishing the job at Tora Bora? A meaningless war in Iraq ("The war will pay for itself because of the oil reserves of Iraq" LOL..."Israel will be safer" LOL... "We will bring democracy to the Middle East" double LOL)
They diverted American military personnel from Afghanistan to Iraq. Why? "Because Saddam Hussein is the biggest threat to the US, and he has big bad weapons of mass destruction." This was a big pack of lies which even these dumbos (sorry "Great Strategists" working in tandem with the "shining beacon of democracy" called Israel) did not believe, of course, but they easily sold these lies to the Homer Simpsons of the American public.
Bin Laden is dead now, al-Qaeda, by any meaningful sense of the term, is inoperative and pretty much dead too. What, then, are we doing in Afghanistan now?
Let me spell it out for you, since intelligence does not seem to be your strong suit: We are engaging in "state-building," there, bringing them "democracy". State-building in a completely tribal society...what a complete joke! Here is my advice to our Israeli "friends" (of course with friends like these, one does not need any enemies): Learn Chinese. You will need it soon.
Meanwhile the ship called USA is slowly but surely sinking. What should we do now? Of course, our beloved Washington think-tanks and their shills in the corporate media, tell us, "we need to wage another meaningless war in the Middle East", this time against Iran. The same story as it happened from 2001 to 2003 all over again. The media will play the war drums again, selling another pack of lies about the "deadly threat" coming from Iran. And Homer Simpsons will, once-again willy-nilly, swallow this propaganda wholesale.
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
Quote:
Originally Posted by damaci
This...pretty much.
The irony of ironies is the following: As the US keeps fighting totally meaningless wars in the Middle East and depletes its financial and economic power for nothing (What did the US actually gain as a result of its costly entanglements in Iraq and Afghanistan? Let me tell you what, a big fat nothing and trillions of dollars and thousands of lives in the drain. Ironically, yet again, these entanglements did not even manage to make Israel a safer place, which was probably the leading reason why so many neo-conservatives and dumbos from the Israeli lobby jumped on the bandwagon in the first place.), China happily licks its chops and gets more and more business deals and economic contracts in Africa and the Middle East. It is obvious that the real economic and political challenge to the rapidly declining American global position will come from China, and when it comes the US will probably already be a spent force.
The whole Iranian hysteria is a just a repeat of the hysteria regarding Iraq circa 2001-2003. It is a total farce.
so you have it all figured out, eh? you, from your perch atop all knowledge and in your infinite capability for logical reason, have the definitive answer on everything that is politics and international relations. your god-like capacity for awareness, aware of the interests, knowledge, and intentions of every person from ahmadinejad himself to netanyahu (actually, all israelis) to obama, to "israelis" is truly awe-inspiring.
i, for one, am more than humbled to be a part of this, 2+2's Politics forum, given that you (in your infinite wisdom) have decided to let the world know how it all works, here.
either what i wrote is true and fact, or you are an idiot. either or.
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
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Originally Posted by krmont22
Attack the argument instead of the poster.
i thought it was implied. the guy says he knows everything about the net economic and personal effects of war on the United States. i say he doesn't. my argument is pretty clear.
but let's go for it.
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As the US keeps fighting totally meaningless wars in the Middle East
Meaningless? unsubstantiated claim and argument from emotion.
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and depletes its financial and economic power
unsubstantiated claim.
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for nothing (What did the US actually gain as a result of its costly entanglements in Iraq and Afghanistan?
a friendly government in afghanistan, the marginalization of the taliban (a friendly government to the 9/11 attackers), and 11 years without a major terrorist attack against us interests, friendly government in iraq, marginalization of a historical troublemaker in saddam hussein (i.e. kuwait).
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Let me tell you what, a big fat nothing and trillions of dollars and thousands of lives in the drain.
in the drain? Innovation from the military with civilian applications is a known benefit of military funding. Add to that the servicepeople employed by the military and earning paycheques. Whether that's a net economic benefit is a valid question. show your work.
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Ironically, yet again, these entanglements did not even manage to make Israel a safer place, which was probably the leading reason why so many neo-conservatives and dumbos from the Israeli lobby jumped on the bandwagon in the first place.)
And what is your obsession with Israel? Do you believe Israel controls the US government to act in its own detriment? (or is it those damn dual-loyalty j0000s?) suppose its the american jews. whats your plan? take away their vote? citizenship? charge every jew with treason?
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China happily licks its chops and gets more and more business deals and economic contracts in Africa and the Middle East. It is obvious that the real economic and political challenge to the rapidly declining American global position will come from China, and when it comes the US will probably already be a spent force.
unsubstantiated claim.
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The whole Iranian hysteria is a just a repeat of the hysteria regarding Iraq circa 2001-2003. It is a total farce.
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
everyone calm down, 2+2 military and foreign policy specialist Mayo has assured me countless times that there is almost zero chance of military action against iran
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
Quote:
Originally Posted by damaci
This...pretty much.
The irony of ironies is the following: As the US keeps fighting totally meaningless wars in the Middle East and depletes its financial and economic power for nothing (What did the US actually gain as a result of its costly entanglements in Iraq and Afghanistan? Let me tell you what, a big fat nothing and trillions of dollars and thousands of lives in the drain. Ironically, yet again, these entanglements did not even manage to make Israel a safer place, which was probably the leading reason why so many neo-conservatives and dumbos from the Israeli lobby jumped on the bandwagon in the first place.), China happily licks its chops and gets more and more business deals and economic contracts in Africa and the Middle East. It is obvious that the real economic and political challenge to the rapidly declining American global position will come from China, and when it comes the US will probably already be a spent force.
The whole Iranian hysteria is a just a repeat of the hysteria regarding Iraq circa 2001-2003. It is a total farce.
Israel is certainly safer since the wars et cetera etc. Just look what we accomplished past few years: Heaps of oil and killing of creditors (Saddam was loaned billlions from US). Gaddafi was killed without invasion, an ingenious no fly zone for about a year toppled him. I mean this Gadddafi nutcase actually wanted to Unite Africa into the United States of Africa, basically a new ****ing superpower, ya... no thanks.
As far as Saddam goes....wtf? This guy was a secular Nationalist, known for his aggression and war like mentality vs agents and anyone who wasn't with his fascist nationalist ideology. He had to be dealt with and it was profitable to do so.
Sure Israel might be more prone to attack from the Islamists who have taken over/toppled governments of Egpyt, Libya, Tunisia, and soon Syria. That doesn't necessarily mean they are less safe. The Islamist governments will be more strict and less stable and developed. Not only that but we know these people are of the "Osama Bin Laden" ideology, therefore everyone can easily hate them, and therefore if Israel was ever to attack, even preemptively, they would have the support of the majority of the world.
Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.
Re: And so it begins (Iran - US precursors to war)
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Originally Posted by krmont22
Israel terrorizing Iran? Who woulda thunk it?
After all those years of Iran shipping Hezbollah terrorists money, weapons, and training from their military, who would have thunk the Israelis would team up one time with common enemies of the regime in Iran for a calculated and carefully planned attack on a specific individual for a specific military purpose - to slow the advancement of the iranian nuclear weapons program and deter future scientists from happily joining that effort.
Now, its time for the obsessive israel blamers to try and draw equivalence between this and the decades of hijackings, suicide bombings, and rockets fired on civilian targets from iranian sponsored hamas and hezbollah.
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