It means you completely missed the joke dziki was making about the death penalty preventing him from killing his family and went off the deep end. I am saying something now so we don't get a 200 post derail.

Also, postcount +1.

Ahh, I see, I missed a bad joke. My bad.

I didn't know respectfully asking a question was "going off the deep end", but you fit in with the phony crowd anyway.

For the same reason people make fun of Scientologists for thinking an evil galatic alien overlord named Xenu exists or Christians for believing in Creationism, because it's ridiculous.

People are allowed to make up whatever ridiculous beliefs they want and claim they're sacred, the world isn't required to magically respect your non-sense.

I am realer than Real Deal Holyfield just fyi.

Death penalty isn't racist. US justice system is racist.

Norway has the correct system. Not only no death penalty but no life sentences.

21 years plus indefinite extentions if the prisoner isn't rehabilitated yet and is a danger.

Prisons themselves should be solely concerned with rehab and therefore the best ones look like 4 star resorts. Prisoners are housed with human dignity and have many of their rights protected.

The number one goal is getting recidivism rates as low as possible.

Agree with this.

lol at this.

When a person is deemed "rehabilitated" and commits another crime, what happens after that?


This is why conservatives laugh at liberals.

When a person is deemed "punished enough" in America, is released and proceeds to commit crime 2 to 3x more often than in Norway, what happens then?

This is why progressives face palm when conservatives think proven methods that will help everyone are funny. It's pathetic.

It would be progress if it was just conservatives who disagreed with the general idea. Not sure many from the left are on board either - not even in UK let alone the USA.

Best to accept an extreme category who are lifers (they aren't going to gain from the Norway system anyway). That way we can try to win a much easier argument on the vast majority of prisoners. Possibly those lifers should be in places like Broadmoor anyway.

If I were discussing this in person with most of the population the entry vector would be an abstract discussion of how punishment doesn't work and rehabilitation to lower recidivism should be the goal.

Discussing this with a minority of decent open minded thinkers means you can just take an entry vector of finding what works and setting that as the goal. Results alone can make the argument.

I mean ultimately it's all just dorm room bull****, people still think the death penalty is a good idea (in this thread!!!) and there is no logic to that. I dont really expect to lead a campaign to a better justice system.

There is a logic to the death penalty. It's about a more primitive satisfaction than justice - they want him to die (or suffer) for what he did.

Yes I put a joke at the end of my post about my not killing my relatives. But I was actually making a comment about how crazy it is to believe the studies that show it doesn't work. First off, the certainty of being executed is not there for there to be a real effect. We just aren't killing enough people. Second, those studies again never take into account how many people don't get killed because of it. I've been studying a lot of behavioral economics lately. Enough to know that those previous studies are really flawed and not to be relied on.

And of course this does not even begin to address the moral argument. If you murder someone how can it not cost you your life. Time in a cell is not worth the same.

When a person commits a victimless crime, is condemned to jail, comes out unemployable with no other way to support himself but to turn to more crime, what happens after that?

This is why liberals weep for conservatives.

Do you really think that when deciding to kill or not, people think, "oh, I'm only getting life in prison for this, that's not too bad, I guess I'll go through with it."

It's always funny when people say studies shouldn't be believed because they don't take into account the exact thing the studied investigate. Also if only we executed more people it would be more effective.

Wait, no, tragic. Its always tragic that people do this.

A lot of conservatives don't actually understand what "rehabilitated" means.

It doesn't mean sitting in a jail cell for 20-30 years and thinking about what you did like you are giving a 2 year old a timeout in the corner.

The real issue is no one wants to pay for the proper rehabilitation needed to release a prisoner.

Furthermore, if we would actually invest in children instead of cutting education programs, the recidivism rate would be lower to begin with.

not really
http://deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

Solitary confinement for life is worse than death.

phil, as a hard-core liberal, even i think you're sounding insane. some people aren't people, they're animals. they've proved that they should be separated from actual people. for the rest of their lives.

of course we should do a better job at rehabilitating criminals, but you can't rehabilitate a ****ing animal.

if we were to cure poverty, as they've largely done, we'd probably have fewer poors reoffending.

PTU, the system Phil is talking about has a mechanism to deal with those types of people. They do spend the rest of their lives in prison. A person who can't be rehabilitated will never be released.

arguing for a rehabilitation centred justice system is all good and all, but cases like these are probably the worst place to argue for it. I'm guessing the arguments for rehabilitating vs punishing, say, grand theft auto are far stronger than for mass civilian casualty bombers.

ok, if animals get life, i'm fine with that. but... cunning psychopaths can probably out-wit these people and wind up back on the streets to further victimize humans

so... i don't like some system where that's possible. if your crime was bad enough, life without.

not no, "we'll see how it goes and see if you can convince some norwegian nit-wit you've rehabilitated."