wat

Let them eat cake imo

Ashkenazi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews

(complementary post to post #50)

I'm English and I find it hard to care. If they want it, let them. It's not something I think about a lot and I'd say that's fairly typical for English people.

Chez, if you examine Europe they have some great outcomes from allowing private business participation in the Health System, especially Sweden whom I believe the present Gub is trying to emulate.

Also if Scotland gained independence how much of the National debt would they take with them?

Crap, they said this about the original crew of Battlestar Galactica

Despite them receiving disproportionate amounts of public sector spending i think sharing it equally by population is the fairest way.

So Scottish public debt will be about £77.8 billion.

A lot more if Pension liabilities et al are included.

they also get RBS.

If we could ban Gordon and Tony from coming south of the border then maybe independence isn't such a pointless idea.

So, quite fairly, public debt should be an issue.

How about the 300-400 billion contributed to the economy from North Sea revenues - should we start considering these sums too?

Yes. Pointing out vacuous dishonest political nonsense is part of politics.

No-one can read your recent posts without seeing your ridiculously myopic view of the SNP. It will also be obvious to those not hard of thinking that even if the SNP were as magnficent as you portray them it has almost zero relevence to the independence debate.

You shouldn't dress up your nationalism, are you ashamed of it? You probably cheer when England lose at sport, if you dont you should know many of your fellows do.

There is no debate. Nothing would change for the Scotland if it were independent.

Scottish people got their fair share of British oil and gas revenues.

What if they repeat the vote over and over untill the verdict is "yes"?

Anyone interested in fairness would demand a significant majority for a referendum result to stand and a significant lose would prevent reholding the referendum for a number of years. They would also have to be arranged a long time in advance and then not be cancelable.

This is not particularly a Scottish issue though.

A little sumthin else I dug up on that Jah site:
http://www.jahtruth.net/freedman.htm

Damned close 2 a holocaust justification,
disturbing as all f*** iyam

I think the point might be that the majority of the oil and gas revenues would be Scottish, if Scotland was independent.

Wish we could make Wales independent.

We dont need longbows anymore.

Thats what happens here in the Republic of Ireland when any EU treaty is defeated. Slightly off topic i know but it shows there is precendents for repeating referendums until 'the right' answer is obtained.

Thread needs more

Mabyon Kernow. (Once Tin prices go back up enough).

He was talking past tense.

But fine, lets go future tense, we can split the North Sea reserves by population too. If anyone thinks Scotland will ever get the majority of North Sea reserves they are maniacs.

Scottish Independence is of no importance....

What makes it non important as opposed to ANY country that has ever fought for independence from foreign rule ???

well its not foreign rule but yes of course its important to nationalists. When the op is ready to admit he is a nationalist and that's why he wants independence then discussion is over.

Its not important in terms of anything non silly. Therefore sensible people dont care.

I do understand what you're getting at but your arguments are irrelevant. I've already said that independence would not be an issue for me if the partnership worked for everyone. Clearly it doesn't.

I would be very wary of agreeing with you that I am nationalist. I'm quite happy with my political opinion (and quite willing to change it if I see better arguments) and feel there is no room or necessity for pride. I form this opinion from my experiences as a Scot and from gaining an understanding of the arguments for independence, some of which I have already spoken about. Above all I doubt we have the same view of what constitutes nationalism. Some Catalan "nationalists" (they've never been a nation), for example, seem to think they are our "brothers in the fight against central government" which is not even remotely relevant to Scotland and ideology I'd rather not have colouring that of Scottish Nationalism.

The thing is, it's a peculiar part of human nature to try to portray others with the negative aspects of one's own nature and I see your arguments as being myopic in that you have simply labelled everything I've said as "nationalism and nationalism is silly".

As for cheering England's failures: oh you better believe I laugh when England lose at football. Rooney's 3 match ban was the most recent episode I took the greatest of pleasure in reading about.

I'll tell you about how proud Scotland felt when we beat France in Paris (after also beating them at Hampden) and how we were having the best results of a qualifying campaign for many a year. Perhaps it was perceived and not real but it certainly felt like the place was far more cheerful during that time until the last game and the last minute when we achieved our usual "glorious failure" and were robbed of a qualifying spot by a poor refereeing decision against Italy. As much as we were buoyant from the previous victories, we were gutted about the ultimate result.

Until what?

Until the following Wednesday when England lost at home to Croatia and also lost out on a place at the championships (think it was the Euros). That night I think I summed up how the majority of Scotland felt when I texted a friend saying simply "the pain has gone".

Oh what loathsome people we must be!

Well, even that argument is irrelevant. It's human nature to enjoy seeing your rivals fail and I also like to see certain football club teams fail because they are my team's biggest rivals. People everywhere do this. Moreover, I cheer when, for example, Button or Hamilton win a grand prix. I cheered for James Akenhead during his deep run in the main event. I always wanted Jimmy White to win a world championship, even when Stephen Hendry was dominating. So it's not simply about blindly despising something because of my political views.

We are a country with no sovereign power and no control over our own finances due to it being retained by a parliament which legislates with little consideration to the wider implications of its people in Scotland. We don't want to build a wall up here; we would just like to decide how our money is fairly spent and how our public services are fairly run. Don't forget we have never ceased to be a different country and we had no real choice in reluctantly shaking hands and trying to make the best out of a partnership that has long since run its course.

If I were English I would be questioning the fact that there are issues which are irrelevant to Scots which their MP's can vote on in parliament. The fact that many claim we are "disproportionately funded" is another question to put to your politicians. Whether or not that is true is another debate.

I freely admit that there are many people who simply think "f the English let's cut ties" but I would also say they are the less informed minority of stupid people you can get everywhere. The serious argument is that Scotland, as a country with no voice and no power to control its own finances, would like to take that control and decide for itself how to spend its money for the good of everyone living in Scotland, be they Scots, English, Irish, Asian or from wherever else you choose to mention.