I'd like to think out-and-out lying is probably beyond the pale, I mean, we are the good guys here. But we definitely need to play the game tougher, not give an inch, not show our hand, to storm the wire of the camps and smash those metal mother****ers into junk.

Depends: are you good at math?

Criminology 101: thinking the ends justify the means is a hallmark trait of the sociopath. So probably not.

Exactly my point. There are different types and they have different causes and solutions. This is why its a bad idea to lump them all together.

easier than what? being left wing? thats not the equation.

This is excactly what Dvaut and Fly are arguing.

exactly? I value you, but c'mon c'mon, tighten it up

Na, that's just how you're choosing to immaturely take their posts. Like the tough cop in a tough town, we might have to bend rules, but we can't break the big ones without becoming that which we so despise.

I swear IOS makes me look 20 IQ points dumber than I am on a regular basis.

Uh, uh, w/e. I guess everything is easy in the USA.

Well, being an absolutist on "The ends justify the means" or "The ends never justify the means" is pretty goofy.

This is what every person throughout history, who did break the rules, told themselves.

I am only going to do this one thing I wouldn't have done before. I will never do that next thing. Ok I am only going to do the next thing but would never ever consider doing that last thing!

There are whole forests dead due to the volumes written by ethicists on this topic.

How do you tell when you "have become that which you despise?"

When you put it like that it does sound goofy. At it's core it's an antisocial philosophy though, so caveat emptor I guess.

I agree. Life is complicated.

If movies have taught me anything it's around the point when you look in the mirror and can't stand what you've become, and how you've changed for the worst. When self-loathing is your daily emotion, and the shame of your actions begins tear away at your psyche and all you're left with is a pyrrhic victory.

This is not a Pizzagate level conspiracy theory it's just one notch, on a wall full of them, of mainstream conservative media/entertainment sources flirting with open white supremacy, I don't know what imaginary argument Clovis thinks people are making here.

I also don't know how offering like, commentary and punditry about the nexus between the mainstream of movement conservatism and white supremacy is some ****ing bridge too far. That's like half of the **** that gets posted in this forum!

Clovis didn't know(and still doesn't) what the 14 words are and he suffered an acute outbreak of that "deny all racism unless admitted" disease that plagues white dudes on the internet.

Like we aren't lying about any of this ****, this isn't some "ends justify the means, let's call Sarah Palin racist, initiate Phase IV" grand scheme. It's just another subtle sign that America is ****ed up

I'm interested in hearing the insider's view of when and particularly how/why things started to become so ****ed up there.

I'm aware of the catastrophic descent of the politics of the GOP from Ike to current day, but what has changed in the mindset of so many Americans, and why?

I really was going to ignore you because you are what is wrong with debate but your post SO PERFECTLY illustrates my point in the last few posts I cant pass it up.

You are simply straight up lying now. There is no other interpretation.

That slope, its slippery. You are now at the bottom.

Oroku, take note this is what it looks like.

Oh I forgot to add **** **** **** MORON

So... you were pointing out that there exist two meanings for the r-word, and your question wasn't meant as a question at all. And... the point you were making is that, I guess, that it's a sub-optimal communications strategy to conflate these two meanings. Do I got this right?

I'm going to suggest that you yourself are using both another sub-optimal communications strategy (posing cryptic rhetorical questions, then following up with what you really mean is sub-optimal -vs- just spitting out what you really mean the first time), and you are normalizing conflating the two meanings as you do so.

But, I'm curious.

I've never heard the "different causes and solutions" line before. Could you explain, briefly, the main causes and solutions regarding Institution R-word-ism, and then contrast them with the main causes and solutions regarding Secret Heart R-word-ism ??

What am I lying about? Have you looked up what the 14 words are?

None of these people have ever managed to pull off the "ignore a question they don't want to answer by tone policing" trick, ever, but they go back to that well like they are ****ing due. It's crazy.

Talking about effective rhetoric, Clovis, why the **** do you keep coming back to rack up L on L instead of just answering my ****ing question?

My apologies. My post only makes sense in the larger context of my earlier argument.

I am arguing it is important to differentiate types and degrees of racism.

Everyone is racist. We all unconsciously exhibit bias towards the "other". There is mountains of data showing this.

There are however some people that have moved beyond the unconscious racism to conscious. Some have made is core to their being, like white supremacists.

We fight the first kind of racism differently than we do the last type. For example, we can use laws to fight white supremacists but not unconscious racism. That is much harder.

One of my main points to start this debate was that its useful to differentiate your standard republican racism from instituational white supremacy. Of course some of the former are also the latter, but not all.

Is our position really that everyone on the right is a white supremacist? I don't think you would make that point.

LOL this dude is even adopting chezlaw's thing where he tells other people that their stated opinions simply can't be the opinions they hold, but he's added this weird obtuse strawman thing to it. Wonderful.

Because your question is stupid. You know it is stupid. You know I know what the 14 words are. I've shown in my posting history I am not a moron. You want to pretend I don't know because you can cling to the idea you were right when in fact you were obviously wrong in this case. You read my posts where I called her a racist over and over. You are not a moron, you are just completely disingenuous.

Notice how I have offered several concessions itt and accepted where I was wrong several times. That is called adult debate. You simply want to scream so carry on.

**** **** ****.

That does feel good. I'll grant you that.

For the record I have literally taught a course in Anthropology on race but please carry on thinking I am too stupid to use google if it makes you feel better.

You're criticising ourself now fly. A key part of what you do is ignoring people's stated opinions and making stuff up about them instead.

Your criticism is very valid.