They weren't until YoungCons added a whole disclaimer mocking people for reading so much into numbers in a headline, when they specified the 14 words that would "leave Americans stunned" were

And FLY is still acting like my years of posting here was all some cirade and I'm actually a right-wing hack because I disagree with him.

Hey shame trolly, you asked earlier about his role in debate.

Woah, slow down there. Since I introduced the topic of finding a right-wing Fly, I should be clear here that I meant someone funny and witty who added substantive points and content and mixed in ridicule and debasement of their opponents. You've shifted the goalposts onto some field that is basically just restarting your own grudge against Fly but is not a consensus opinion, not what I meant.

We is the politically active left. I have no idea what you mean by the mouse comment.

I went with someone from the right who would match the discussion style. TS was closest I could come up with off the top of my head - can you think of anyone closer?

Witty and funny would be good too but you may be expecting a bit much if you think many left wingers would find a right wing version of fly witty or funny -you may need to ask the Toothies if they find TS witty and funny.

Sure I'm having a bit of fun with fly as well - it goes both ways. No malice intended, he can take it ok.

Maybe you should stop repeating it then?

The two are directly related. That is the point.

I provided context this time.

Do you think the right didn't go though a transformation of their rhetoric? It always starts with small things and ends up with pizza-gate. It's never starts pizza-gate.

No, I don't think pizza-gate starts with fly hurting your feelings. It's a dumb ****ing comparison and everyone is rightly calling you out for it.

Like, yo, chez is in here campaigning to recruit a literal, honest-to-god pizzagater into the forum and it's sort of a weird look that you don't care about that.

Witty retort and the fact that it's a knowing distortion of my position does a nice job of proving my larger point.

Thanks.

I hadn't read that part of this thread as I'm involved in my own but glad it can provide you another opportunity to subtly suggest my 10,000 posts were all a 10 year ploy and that I'm actually a right-wing stooge.

The fact that among those 10,000 posts are probably more than 100 arguing with Tooth, the very person being discussed, is meaningless right?

More evidence of my ploy and more reason to ignore my larger point obviously.

And it's a straight lie anyway. I'm not trying to recruit anybody.

If Fly gets to hurt white guys feelings then chez gets to recruit someone who sincerely believes Hillary Clinton and John Podesta ran a child rape ring out of a pizza parlor for balance.

Like I said, we're 500 or so posts into this and I've become more convinced than ever that this is ultimately an exercise in social conditioning. Even the threats lay it bare. Fly's schtick to humiliate low status white men is balanced by insane racist morons. Do you want that to happen to your nice forum here, huh? Wouldn't that be upsetting huh? Now you know how Fly makes us feel!

Like the reflexive threat of everyone here is that the counter balance to Fly is Milo, Ann Coulter and Toothsayer is just so revealing. If even ONE white man on the internet feels bad, we can justifiably pollute THE DISCOURSE with people too racist for a forum whose existence is to contain socially awkward racists because the can of worms have been opened, it's the natural evolution of the slippery slope, thanks short-sighted liberals.

Aw, I was picturing some /pol/ guy who'd constantly accuse everyone of being secretly Jewish. Though I suppose we'd have to be living in some parallel universe where he's very often correct.

OK VG. Let's continue examining this role.

First of all, it takes two to tango, so to speak. There is no rule that says you must respond to rhetoric of the FlyWf style. There's even a convenient feature built into the forum software, for those that have impulse issues.

Second, and this is really the point that I'm getting at, is why do you care? Some peeps like the FlyWf style of rhetoric. Some peeps like the Clovis8 style of rhetoric. A whole lotta of peeps like the DVaut1 style of rhetoric. OK, I'll admit nobody likes the Shame Trolly !!!1! style of rhetoric... myself included. But, when peeps hate on my style of rhetoric, I just LOL back @them. I don't do the It-Takes-Two-to-Tango dance that both you & FlyWf are cutting up the virtual rug with ITT.

Why do you care so much? Why don't you just put FlyWf on ignore, and go on with your virtual life?

Chez did you know there are posters clowning on TS every single day in the business & finance sub-forum? He really needs you to help do some tone policing over there.

Nice Dodge. One person is making that claim and it's a stupid one. I'm making the exact opposite claim but good job ignoring that.

Even though I am positive you know this and are simply ignoring it I'll state it again. We should be less like the alt-right, not more. We should not adopt thier rhetorical style.

Because I think our job is changing minds or at least developing arguments that will change minds. It's becoming clear I am alone in that belief.

I am not offended, nor did I say I was. If I'm offended by something, it is the schtick of dvaut pretending to not understand what people are saying.

Now your turn - "<explicit> <explicit> you [something i never said] <explicit> weak #hashtag <wire quote> <wire quote>, also, <explicit>".

Also lol @ you not caring about rhetorical. As I said, what a ****ing charade.

You aren't remotely alone. It's just a view that is strongly and very successfully opposed in P, and has been for so long that almost no-one bothers anymore.

The alt-right are bad because of the political things and conclusions they believe, and their desired state of affairs and their ideals for the ordering of the civic society are bad. Not because of their rhetorical style. I think committed leftists should be focused on substance, not style. I understand the modern left has confused the two and we're worse off for it.

Having said that, we are all amateur fans of art I suppose. And I can appreciate stylistic commentary. But I've said my piece on Fly's style and find it mostly for the better. More clever than gauche. But I can understand it's an acquired taste.

So I don't think I'm ignoring your points but there's not much more to say here.

First, that's not why any of us are here, including yourself. It's a nice bonus that happens once in a blue moon, but it's not the draw.

Second, neither you nor anybody else who has made tone policing arguments have ever shown that it is more effective (or effective at all) at changing minds.

Grunching again, but TS is by no means a right-wing equivalent of fly.

For starters he's incapable of humour; then there's the repeated posting of his blue circles of doom - how many more times does anyone need to see that? - that paints him as more of an anti-Muslim, anti-gay propagandist than a debater.

It's very interesting, telling even, that chez wants him back here (he didn't want him to leave P8.8).

Isn't there anyone else from SMP who could be recruited?

Please explain why we can't comment on both style and substance? You don't think the two are linked?

sniffle sniffle