Ron Paul 2012 Containment Thread - Page 82 - Politics and Economics

Article: Paul team reaches out to Iowa farmers

MSNBC: Ron Paul Expects To Come In Top 3 In Ames Iowa Straw Poll
This clip contains a short clip of Ron, along with some MSNBC "analysis" downplaying Paul's chances in the straw poll. When Paul places top 2 in the straw poll, I bet this same MSNBC clown will discredit Paul's finish by saying Paul always does well in straw polls. You can't have it both ways.

08-04-2011 , 01:13 AM

#2028

Schwallie

formerly TheProdigy

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 10,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Yeah, we look real bad here.

Couple of things:

1) It's not ambigious and it's not possible. He definitely has connections to racists, like his whole inner intellectual inner circle are Neo-Confederate douchebags. And it's not ambigious, what he wrote in his newsletter was unquestionably racist and terrible. That's completely relevant to his campaign.

2) I suspect you've picked up this "politically not allowed so it doesn't matter" argument from other Paul 135+ IQ types, but if you kept thinking about it you'd realize that argument applies to literally any belief. Racists. Communists. Al Qaeda members. Seriously, and this isn't the first time, you guys honestly seem to think that asking "what do members of the Paul family believe" is lamestream media gotcha questions.

Like, I get that you guys aren't politically sophisticated. But do you really think the only reason we're bringing up the racism is because we are afraid that Ron Paul will, as President, issue an executive order repealing the 13th amendment?

His history of iffy racial connections and the woeful excuses he and his supporters have for those are definitely relevant to his political future, and through the magic of AD HOMINEM FALLACY OMG I'd prefer not to vote for a racist just as a general principle. I'm not alone in holding that principle.

P.S. If you think coercive central authority should not be used to check food and drug safety but do think coercive central authority should be used to stop people from saying mean things about Ron Paul, you might be a libertarian on the internet.

lol @ bolded.

P.S. you seem super mad about the subject, it sincerely smells of the same **** every year with a Presidential candidate having a pastor/church circle with some radical beliefs that never come into play in the actual Presidency. Keep fighting the good fight though man, I'd much rather not vote for a racist because there are so many good options available to us that it will be so easy to pick someone else that isn't a crazy lunatic religious nut who thinks we should be governed by the church.

08-04-2011 , 01:30 AM

#2029

Schwallie

formerly TheProdigy

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 10,234

Sorry didn't realize the thread went this far. Go back to the real conversations, I quite enjoy those.

08-04-2011 , 01:36 AM

#2030

LirvA

banned

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 43,574

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermion5

"Well Sue, Ron Paul won the straw poll, but the BIG news is who came in second!"

"That's right John!"

08-04-2011 , 09:55 AM

#2031

kowboykiller

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 893

Lol @ msnbc is pretty standard

08-04-2011 , 11:15 AM

#2032

DMACM

banned

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,917

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASPoker8

Unfortunately those tasked with judging whether you are trolling or not are the same who misspell simple words during their ego trips.

What are you talking about?

08-04-2011 , 11:36 AM

#2033

DMACM

banned

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,917

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Raker

I actually don't think he really does. He seems to believe more in his view of the constitution and states rights than any libertarian principles. Which is why he thought that judges were wrong in striking down the Texas sodomy ban, something that anybody committed to libertarian principles would agree with.

There are exceptions but the overwhelming majority of his positions are libertarian. There might be something to the secret racism conspiracy theories but saying he's not libertarian is really very silly.

08-04-2011 , 11:48 AM

#2034

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,497

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMACM

Agreeing much more with libertarians than basically every other elected politician doesn't make him one.

08-04-2011 , 11:56 AM

#2035

Fermion5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,381

Video: Ron Paul talks about expectations for the upcoming Ames Straw Poll with NBC's Anthony Terrell. (8/3)

Video: Ron Paul on CNBC - History says Gold is Money - August 4, 2011

08-04-2011 , 11:56 AM

#2036

General Tsao

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 30,586

RP is an ACist, of course he's a libertarian.

08-04-2011 , 12:04 PM

#2037

Fermion5

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 8,381

RP is not an ACist, he wants constitutional govt. At least that's what he says in public.

08-04-2011 , 12:51 PM

#2038

Max Raker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMACM

This was already posted and is wholly incompatible with libertarianism.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul120.html

He is a social conservative and thinks people in state governments have the right to make illegal certain sexual acts amongst consenting adults in their state. No libertarian would agree with that.

Last edited by Max Raker; 08-04-2011 at 01:09 PM.

08-04-2011 , 01:17 PM

#2039

Vael

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 6,377

now this essay really doesn't reflect well on Paul, wrt the things I value. "social matters like sex"..really?

08-04-2011 , 01:28 PM

#2040

Max Raker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vael

now this essay really doesn't reflect well on Paul, wrt the things I value. "social matters like sex"..really?

in b4 u are called a troll...

08-04-2011 , 02:15 PM

#2041

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,497

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Raker

This was already posted and is wholly incompatible with libertarianism.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul120.html

He is a social conservative and thinks people in state governments have the right to make illegal certain sexual acts amongst consenting adults in their state. No libertarian would agree with that.

Quote:

Consider the Lawrence case decided by the Supreme Court in June. The Court determined that Texas had no right to establish its own standards for private sexual conduct, because gay sodomy is somehow protected under the 14th amendment “right to privacy.” Ridiculous as sodomy laws may be, there clearly is no right to privacy nor sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution. There are, however, states' rights — rights plainly affirmed in the Ninth and Tenth amendments. Under those amendments, the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards. But rather than applying the real Constitution and declining jurisdiction over a properly state matter, the Court decided to apply the imaginary Constitution and impose its vision on the people of Texas.

He's saying that Texas can legally ban sodomy, even though he personally thinks that's a ridiculous thing for them to do.

He might be a conservative Christian but his voting history at the federal level is split and probably more liberal than not.

He voted for the repeal of don't ask don't tell.
He wants to end the drug prohibition.
He is (now) against capital punishment.

Quote:

Over the years I've held pretty rigid to all my beliefs, but I've changed my opinion of the death penalty. For federal purposes I no longer believe in the death penalty. I believe it has been issued unjustly. If you're rich, you get away with it; if you're poor and you're from the inner city you're more likely to be prosecuted and convicted, and today, with the DNA evidence, there've been too many mistakes, and I am now opposed to the federal death penalty.

He is pro-life but at the same time doesn't think the federal government can or should ban abortions.
He supports stem cell research.

As I just said, he isn't a libertarian. He's just by far the closest to libertarian of any prominent politician. Might Gary Johnson be more inline with libertarian beliefs? Maybe, I don't know.

Last edited by SL__72; 08-04-2011 at 02:20 PM.

08-04-2011 , 02:41 PM

#2042

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

He's saying that Texas can legally ban sodomy, even though he personally thinks that's a ridiculous thing for them to do.

Yeah, we can all read. Do you guys completely disregard the possibility that he might be less than 100% truthful? Like, human beings can sometimes say they believe one thing but actually believe another.

Regardless, any actual libertarian should love that the Supreme Court activist judged up a "right to privacy" from the Constitution. That's a great thing. If Ron Paul believes the State of Texas can criminalize homosexuality, and believes that strongly enough to write an article complaining about the loss of that power...

Like, in that death penalty thing, he's opposed to the federal death penalty because it's unjustly applied. That's just him being an idiot, though, because the Feds have only executed 27 people in the past century(3 in the past 30 years), and the vast majority of them have been white. The income inequality issue he's describing applies to STATE death penalties, but he's got to retrofit his Civil War-era states' rights rhetoric to this so he comes up with an absolutely nonsensical policy position.

08-04-2011 , 03:09 PM

#2043

FallsviewPokerPro

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,477

Ron Paul opposes stem cell research as much as George Bush did

08-04-2011 , 03:34 PM

#2044

DMACM

banned

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,917

I personally don't have a big principled commitment to the federalist system but Paul apparently does. I don't think that makes him less a libertarian. What if u.s. congress banned drugs in Canada or the supreme court passed a law banning drugs. That might be a more libertarian outcome but its out of the bounds of the constution. This thread is way off because it focuses almost entirely on Paul's secret motivations. The msm media portrays him and he exclusively advocates race neutral libertarian ideas. Here its mostly conspiracies.

08-04-2011 , 03:57 PM

#2045

kowboykiller

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 893

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMACM

Here its mostly conspiracies.

Iirc, "conspiracy" was even in the actual site names of links posted itt claiming Ron to be a racist. Perhaps a good topic for into which the once-insightful History Channel has devolved.

08-04-2011 , 04:02 PM

#2046

kowboykiller

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 893

The real Ron Paul?

08-04-2011 , 04:11 PM

#2047

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,497

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

http://www.ontheissues.org/ron_paul.htm

Quote:

Paul opposes the death penalty and would vote against it in “any legislative body he was a member of,” according to campaign spokesman Jesse Benton

Ron Paul:

Gary Johnson:

Obama:

Bachmann:

Romney:

Last edited by SL__72; 08-04-2011 at 04:21 PM.

08-04-2011 , 04:17 PM

#2048

SL__72

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 16,497

The point of posting all of those graphs was to support this thesis:

1. RP isn't a libertarian under the definition used by many posters here.
2. He is the closest, by far, of any of the candidates. Well obv. Johnson is close but he got the same social score and a lower economic one.