Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > Other Topics > Politics

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2012, 01:12 AM   #46
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 40
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
I'm trying hard to understand this thread, but the only understanding I have of the word "fracking" is from BSG, where it was a replacement for ****ing.
I think "fracking" is short for "hydraulic fracturing", which is a risky way to get natural gas from deep underground. Many in the oil & gas industry love it because they can make money from it, while suffering the bad side effects no more than the rest of us who make no money from fracking.
Land Shark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:18 AM   #47
aka T-Bone
 
tomdemaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: but some of my best friends are AC
Posts: 14,412
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

what the frack is going on in this thread?
tomdemaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:27 AM   #48
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 40
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Key View Post
looks like we'll never know, because we can only take the word of my informant or that of the OPs
Put up or shut up! OK, I admit that I am Willard Mitt Romney. And no, I will not release my taxes.

Last edited by Land Shark; 08-04-2012 at 01:28 AM. Reason: "not" release my taxes
Land Shark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:36 AM   #49
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bayou in August
Posts: 62,602
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Skipping over a bit because OP is lololololol, but:

Pros
1) gets natural gas, lowers CO2 emissions and is cleaner
2) gives us cheap energy

The earthquake and environmental concerns are overstated (although one more than the other)
ikestoys is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:47 AM   #50
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AlexM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 2+2 is not a substitute for therapy
Posts: 14,528
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Land Shark View Post
I think "fracking" is short for "hydraulic fracturing", which is a risky way to get natural gas from deep underground. Many in the oil & gas industry love it because they can make money from it, while suffering the bad side effects no more than the rest of us who make no money from fracking.
Okay, that sounds bad.
AlexM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:49 AM   #51
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 40
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
Skipping over a bit because OP is lololololol, but:

Pros
1) gets natural gas, lowers CO2 emissions and is cleaner
2) gives us cheap energy

The earthquake and environmental concerns are overstated (although one more than the other)
Excellent post!

Pros: Cheap energy is great, as long as the external costs are low enough. Lowering CO2 emissions and being cleaner (than what?) are both wonderful, too. Any earthquake or environmental concerns are unlikely to be as harmful as global warming. Which of the 2 concerns do you think is more over-stated?

Cons: On the other hand, we cannot trust the oil and gas industry. Maybe my biggest concern is that when we pull these massive amounts of fossil fuels out of the ground and send them into the atmosphere, it will greatly worsen global warming. A related concern is that while many other nations are correctly pursuing greener energy, we are procrastinating while making global warming worse.
Land Shark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 02:21 AM   #52
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,362
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

YQuite frankly, I don't think that we currently know enough to do a proper cost/benefit analysis of fracking...

Burning natural gas does emit greenhouse gasses, but not as much as burning coal (IIRC, you get an equivalent amount of energy for about 1/3 of the emissions). Coal mining can cause erosion, toxic dust, and requires miners to spend significant amounts of time in dangerous conditions underground. Oil can be spilled during drilling or transit. Nuclear powerplants can melt down (oh, and uranium has to be mined). Solar and wind energy have not yet been shown to be scalable enough to replace fossil fuels.

So, really, it comes down to an assessment of how big the earthquake and environmental risks truly are. And I think that a fair bit of skepticism wrt the assurances of the businesses that benefit from the fracking is justified. I'm definitely interested in more independent studies of aquifers located close to fracking sites and perhaps some restrictions on the types of chemicals that could be used, or the areas where fracking could take place... Oh, and energy conservation is probably a good thing.
Bigoldnit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 04:16 AM   #53
Don't Call Me Shirley
 
MrWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Treating my drinking problem.
Posts: 59,574
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
Skipping over a bit because OP is lololololol, but:

Pros
1) gets natural gas, lowers CO2 emissions and is cleaner
2) gives us cheap energy

The earthquake and environmental concerns are overstated (although one more than the other)
I don't often agree with ikes, and I'm not totally sold on the benefits of fracking, but there's little to argue with here.
MrWookie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 04:40 AM   #54
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BadBoyBenny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 6,743
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Land Shark View Post
OK, I will try again. Can someone here explain the pros of fracking?
We can use the gas to heat our homes and cook our food?
BadBoyBenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 11:16 AM   #55
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: I use to be jackaaron
Posts: 268
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

OP, a lot of the things you listed as Cons are merely a fracking company who makes mistakes. They get punished for those in some ways.

Fracking itself doesn't cause what you listed, only poor use of machinery, poor planning, etc.
jackaaron2012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 11:21 AM   #56
veteran
 
esad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,118
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Laaaaaaaaand Shaaaaaaaaaark!!

(I just wanted to be first since it appears Land Shark is the new SteeeeeeeeelHouse!!)
esad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:30 PM   #57
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Low Key's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Knitting humorous cumberbunds
Posts: 24,796
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaaron2012 View Post
OP, a lot of the things you listed as Cons are merely a fracking company who makes mistakes. They get punished for those in some ways.

Fracking itself doesn't cause what you listed, only poor use of machinery, poor planning, etc.
Can you provide any evidence that this is true? I'd be very interested to read some.
Low Key is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 01:55 PM   #58
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,935
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

In terms of earthquakes here's a recent paper from (I think) a neutral source.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13355&page=1

It's 300 pages, so I didn't read the whole thing. The exec summary suggests that the earthquake "issue" is way overstated by some.
mosdef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #59
grinder
 
FourFins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 682
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking

Here's how I see it:

Natural gas > coal

I think it emits about 50% as much CO2 as coal when burned. However, some life cycle assessments of natural gas have it's total GHG footprint as high as something like coal, as a lot of methane is released during the fracking & extraction process.

It's nice we have a lot in the USA. I've read a few different claims on how much supply we have here. From just a decade or two to a hundred years. Not sure.

How destructive it is on the environment, again I've read many different things. I think the process of drilling into the earth and injecting a chemically-laden substance would probably have some serious side effects and I would not enjoy having a well that draws from an aquifer nearby a drilling site.

I hope natural gas is used and thought of as a bridge fuel as we try to move into a society where we almost entirely rely on renewables. Global warming is real folks and we are definitely leaving a ****ed up world for future generations.

I think peak oil will wreak havoc on our economy in the coming decades and coal is just terribad so natural gas is probably the only real choice.

P.S. Just to add a con to fracking -- it uses a lot of water. Not great in intense droughts, which will be a more frequent byproduct of climate change:

Drought strains U.S. Oil Production
FourFins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #60
self-banned
 
Case Closed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: pooping my big boy pants
Posts: 19,112
Re: Pros & Cons on Fracking




Good analysis of the pros and cons. It looks like it is a massive money making resource that we are going to get at some way or another. But we should probably cool are **** and use proper regulations to keep it safe since it can do some of the negative things Lank shark said.
Case Closed is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive