The People's Budget: a raise for America - Page 9 - Politics and Economics

it's true though. when someone calls you on the phone and asks you that exact question, you likely revert to ideology.

whereas reality: "do you like ACA?" is going to be far more telling.

Right, couldn't be because the ACA and universal coverage are completely different things.

03-22-2015 , 07:24 PM

#202

LastLife

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 4,593

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

and americans overwhelmingly reject this brand of global feudalism. america is a left leaning country, as i said.

Even if that's true, what does either have to do with what I said? Liberal businesses engage in inversions. Warren Buffet is the largest shareholder in Berkshire.

There is no situation where all businesses, left or right leaning, won't try to increase their post tax profits, polls be damned. Taxing international profits is dumb. It not only forces companies to invert or flat out leave, it both puts US companies as a disadvantage and keeps trillions in capital out of the US.

03-22-2015 , 08:03 PM

#203

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Right, couldn't be because the ACA and universal coverage are completely different things.

i've shown you how if a person supports ACA, saying they support 'single payer' isn't a stretch.

do you really think the people like 'for-profit insurers'?

#DeadHorse

03-22-2015 , 08:04 PM

#204

ikestoys

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

You've asserted it a thousand times, but haven't actually shown dick.

You have, however, handwaved away direct contradictory evidence.

03-22-2015 , 08:15 PM

#205

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

You've asserted it a thousand times, but haven't actually shown dick.

You have, however, handwaved away direct contradictory evidence.

lets look at the 'evidence'. you presented one poll on an ideological question. i presented a poll that said americans actually want single payer (the NY times poll from 09').

then solidified my position with the ACA thing that says they would support single payer by identical margins.

and you can't acknowledge that you're losing this exchange?

03-22-2015 , 08:18 PM

#206

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

yes, and gallup showed a very similar result... in 09. In 2015? Notsomuch. Of course, the 'ideological' poll that fits your belief is valid and the one that does not is not for no reason other than it's convenient.

Last edited by ikestoys; 03-22-2015 at 08:20 PM. Reason: lets not forget how you actually cited the public option as single payer first... lol

03-22-2015 , 08:18 PM

#207

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

btw, ptu the only thing I'm losing in this exchange is my time. If I actually was people would jump in and let me know.

03-22-2015 , 08:19 PM

#208

will1530

self-banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

and americans overwhelmingly reject this brand of global feudalism. america is a left leaning country, as i said.

Lol what? These things are happening right now, and America doesn't overwhelmingly reject these companies. There is some minor bitching from the left and then people proceed to eat their whoppers.

03-22-2015 , 08:22 PM

#209

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

it's almost like after citizen's there's been a flood of 'noise'. whose noise is that? olighargic noise, son.

03-22-2015 , 08:23 PM

#210

KegNog

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 512

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

congressional progressive caucus, FY2016 budget.

http://www.epi.org/publication/the-p...cal-year-2016/

media pretty much ignoring it as per usual. while still spreading the fallacy that liberals don't know how to balance a budget, and screaming about "ENTITLEMENTS" like frank ****ing underwood.

wake up people. progressives are the only ones looking out for you and the good of the country.

you might say, "i don't need no god damn liberal to look out for me." to that i'd say, "BS, unless you're independently wealthy, everyone having more money is good for you."

Haven't the last 7 yrs been under the progressive, liberal agenda? We've seen none of what you prescribe here except the increase of govt made jobs (thats not job creation btw), increase in welfare recipients, significant increase in federal debt, and increase in fed subsidies.

You do realize that all of this will lead to another recession and ultimately, depression of the economy. Or maybe you don't.

03-22-2015 , 08:28 PM

#211

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

it's almost like after citizen's there's been a flood of 'noise'. whose noise is that? olighargic noise, son.

Note: this question still is more conservative than single payer.

And that was losing before citizens united. Good show chap

03-22-2015 , 08:29 PM

#212

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by will1530

Lol what? These things are happening right now, and America doesn't overwhelmingly reject these companies. There is some minor bitching from the left and then people proceed to eat their whoppers.

oh ya... american companies haven't completely abandoned american, almost, but not completely. and if they do, expect lash-back.

fact: back in the day, corporations accounted for nearly a third of revenues. today it's less than 10. and they're still unhappy?

another fact. ask americans what they think about 'so-called free-trade'. they don't support your brand of 'free-trade'.

to call it global feudalism is more than fair. although it's not my argument, so i won't take credit for it. but i'll sure as hell repeat it.

03-22-2015 , 08:35 PM

#213

PoundingTheUnder

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Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

i don't accept the question. it's too ideologically based. what's your response to the 'obamacare' counter that contradicts your silly poll?

ACA evidence = reality

gallop question = ideology

03-22-2015 , 08:37 PM

#214

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

i don't accept the question. it's too ideologically based. what's your response to the 'obamacare' counter that contradicts your silly poll?

ACA evidence = reality

gallop question = ideology

Supporting obamacare is not even close to supporting single payer. Conflating the two is just ****ing stupid.

03-22-2015 , 08:38 PM

#215

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Supporting obamacare is not even close to supporting single payer. Conflating the two is just ****ing stupid.

sure it is. this i've explained.

03-22-2015 , 08:42 PM

#216

ikestoys

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Yes, you've explained how because poors are getting money from obamacare, something something single payer. It's a completely idiotic line of reasoning that is essentially on the same level with a 12 month old's babble. Single payer isn't people getting subsidies to use on their own. Single payer isn't 50 different medicare programs.

It really isn't that hard. There's lots of polls out there about single payer, and you don't use them because they all show you're full of ****.

03-22-2015 , 08:45 PM

#217

ikestoys

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Oh, and a state recently tried to run a single payer program, let's see how that went:

Quote:

There are a number of reasons why Vermont's proposed single-payer health care plan failed: It was too complex, too ambitious, too difficult to achieve within the context of the rest of the U.S. health care system.

But biggest reason was that it simply cost too much. The financing wouldn't have worked.

As Vox's Sarah Kliff reports in a long post-mortem on the proposal, which Democratic Gov. Pete Shumlin killed last week in a surprise announcement, the final estimates indicated that the plan would have required the state to raise an extra $2.5 billion in revenue annually. This is in a state that typically only raises about $2.7 billion total each year. In other words, it would have cost nearly the amount that the entire rest of the state government cost—and that's presuming that those estimates were accurate, and that the one-of-a-kind program encountered no unexpected cost overruns.

...

"You'd think that, if there was any state where this could fly politically, it should have been Vermont," said Matthew Dickinson, a political science professor at Middlebury University. "But in this case, the price was so big that even a state as solidly blue as Vermont wasn't able to swallow it."

Such popular, much support.

03-22-2015 , 08:46 PM

#218

PoundingTheUnder

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Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

sure it is. single payer cuts out for-profit insurers (which surely we can agree people hate), turns the gov into the insurer and allows you to seek a private doctor. that's more than a fair comparison.

i mean, of course medicaid expansion is slightly diff due to tax funds going to for-profit insurers, to insure the poor.

03-22-2015 , 08:48 PM

#219

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

sure it is. single payer cuts out for-profit insurers (which surely we can agree people hate), turns the gov into the insurer and allows you to seek a private doctor. that's more than a fair comparison.

Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.
Obamacare doesn't do this.

03-22-2015 , 08:52 PM

#220

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

A majority of Americans support a single-payer, Medicare-for-all healthcare system, a new poll shows.

The results showed that just over 50 percent of the 1,500 likely voters surveyed indicated support for a single-payer system. Almost 80 percent of Democrats supported such a plan, while 25 of Republicans did.

The findings were first shared with The Hill by the Progressive Change Institute, an arm of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

The new poll comes on the heels of Vermont Governor Peter Shumlin's abandoning what was seen as a trailblazing plan to create a single-payer healthcare system in his state. The move was derided by Dr. Andrew D. Coates, president of Physicians for a National Health Program, who said, "Vermonters throughout the state understand that an equitable health care system must be truly universal and must remove all financial barriers to medically necessary care. They recognize that a public single payer is an essential incremental step toward these goals."

Quote:

"The time for a single-payer system is now. Our patients in every state urgently need it," Coates added.

That sentiment is widely shared.

Dr. James Burdick, Professor of Surgery at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, wrote in May that a single-payer system "is now recognized by many in the U.S. as the best solution for our health care problems."

http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...at-people-want

i'll accept that it's possible my proclaimed majority has changed. but we still have a majority.

03-22-2015 , 08:53 PM

#221

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Quote:

i mean, of course medicaid expansion is slightly diff due to tax funds going to for-profit insurers, to insure the poor.

right... crazy much?

03-22-2015 , 09:00 PM

#222

PoundingTheUnder

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Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

still riding with that gallup poll, in the face of even more evidence?

you're coming off as almost unreasonable at this point. how many more ways do i need to discredit that gallop ****?

we're at 4 so far.

03-22-2015 , 09:02 PM

#223

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

ikes is though ITT. if you're gonna stick around you'll have to change topics.

03-22-2015 , 09:05 PM

#224

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoundingTheUnder

http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...at-people-want

i'll accept that it's possible my proclaimed majority has changed. but we still have a majority.

lol you found a single poll from an advocacy group in a poll that doesn't use the term single payer ever with a poll question that doesn't make it clear that the government is paying for everyone's medical care.

Meanwhile we got gallup and multiple other polls out there, but we can just ignore those because of the nonsense you posted.

GJGE.

03-22-2015 , 09:11 PM

#225

PoundingTheUnder

banned

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,738

you're the only one ITT with a "single poll"

and i'll admit to not reading the poll but i wouldn't call the hill some lib blog:

Quote:

More than five years after the single-payer system was scrapped from ObamaCare policy debates, just over 50 percent of people say they still support the idea, including one-quarter of Republicans, according to a new poll

Quote:

“There is a hunger in America for big progressive ideas," spokesperson TJ Helmstetter wrote in a statement. "The state of our union is progressive, and the president would be smart to give America the big, popular, progressive economic ideas that people have been crying out for.

and the knock-out punch: if they support the public option of ACA, not a stretch to say they'd support single payer.

Quote:

Another proposed idea under ObamaCare – the public option – also retains wide approval.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...ion-poll-finds

run along now doctor ikes. it's a wrap.

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