Are Millennials the Screwed Generation? - Page 5 - Politics and Economics

Bigoldnit · 07-20-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

The price of things goes up and down. Inflation is about the value of the dollar. You need to lump everything together and get a single number.

Looking at one overall inflation number is ok for some things... However, if there were a situation where the things that most people considered necessities/prerequisites for a stable existence (food, shelter, education, healthcare) were all increasing in price while indulgences/luxury items (electronics, certain specialty appliances, whatever) were becoming relatively cheaper, lumping all of those price changes into one big statistic actually produces a very skewed picture of the type of lifestyle that could be achieved by a given salary at various points in time.

BoredSocial · 07-20-2012, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cres

that was the argument my ex used, to keep our daughter from getting a job in hs. Which was amazingly hypocritical bull**** coming from her. Part of her psyche was to always be a worker, but once she blew her way into lawschool (she had too, no extra curriculars to speak of), and then acquired a downtown partner, suddenly there was no time for our daughter to work. Yet the brightest tend to be actively involved in higher states of learning, sports, social activities, etc etc, simultaneously. How that -ve hits them doesn't ring true.

The point of the teenage job is NOT about the money, but more about the interactivity, from a parents perspective. It creates the demand for better balance of time. And places a real cost to stuff. I will never forget when my daughter wanted to buy something. I responded I don't have any money for that, which triggered the response I wanted. She says, "Oh all you have to do is get it from that machine" pointing out an ATM. She was unaware that you had to deposit before you could withdrawal. She was almost 3. So for her 3rd birthday I gave her all the pennies in the change bin, as long as she helped to roll them. As typical she was good for 10 or so rolls before it was off to play. Us adults spent the next hour and a half rolling $22 worth (coins are really really dirty). Opened her a bank account the next day.

How you read my post as I am at a loss. I inherited the running of the family business the year before you were born. That in itself was a loss, because if the death had of occurred 5 years later, a boatload of real life education would've been available.

I made a general statement about the y's from my perspective. Are there outliers, yes.

ps, the ex's career as a lawyer dissolved after 1 yr. Claims of stress

and she now enjoys the beachfront on his nickel.

I think you're taking your own life experiences and applying them to an entire generation. If you're daughter is a spoiled brat it sounds like it's because your ex is a spoiled brat. Perhaps the reason so many upper middle class kids of my generation are so spoiled is because they're the progeny of shallow, self centered, and ultimately incredibly spoiled parents?

Personally I would have no idea what that is like. People like me are not an outlier. If you look at the economic data more children are growing up fairly poor than ever. And guess what? Having an Iphone doesn't mean you aren't poor. Poor people spend money poorly, a trait that is passed from parent to child. Poor people buy things as status symbols before they upgrade the quality of food their children eat.

There were spoiled brat children when you were a kid. There WERE probably fewer of them back then, because kids were being raised by people who had lived through the depression. Depression survivors saved at a very high rate (which they left to your generation), and were much less likely to spoil their kids. They thought the boomers were incredibly spoiled.

Bigoldnit · 07-20-2012, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blager

There is no good reason for a young person to have run up a lot of debt today.

Except to the extent that the college s/he attended has grossly overcharged them for education, which happens too often these days.

But other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Sure some people got in way over their heads with credit card debt, but by far the biggest systemic problem facing the Millenials is student loan debt... Most careers these days require post hs education, most college tuition is very high (high enough that the average 18 year old couldn't afford tuition and living expenses even if they worked one or two part time jobs) and growing at a rate that greatly exceeds inflation.

Now, maybe you think that more kids should go to community college or work for a few years before they attend university, but I think that saying that there is no good reason for young people to have run up debt is pretty harsh given the realities of both the job market and the state of higher educationin the US.

BoredSocial · 07-20-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul McSwizzle

lol, I would guess most young people fall into this category. I certainly wasn't maxing out any credit cards...

my savings:debt ratio is ~ 100:1 (and falling though!)

i would welcome hyperinflation like a beautiful rain

You've saved a lot... but hyperinflation would be good for you? How? Hyperinflation is good for borrowers.

DeucesAx · 07-20-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigoldnit

Looking at one overall inflation number is ok for some things... However, if there were a situation where the things that most people considered necessities/prerequisites for a stable existence (food, shelter, education, healthcare) were all increasing in price while indulgences/luxury items (electronics, certain specialty appliances, whatever) were becoming relatively cheaper, lumping all of those price changes into one big statistic actually produces a very skewed picture of the type of lifestyle that could be achieved by a given salary at various points in time.

from wiki:

Quote:

Inflation is usually estimated by calculating the inflation rate of a price index, usually the Consumer Price Index. [26] The Consumer Price Index measures prices of a selection of goods and services purchased by a "typical consumer".

cres · 07-20-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredSocial

I think you're taking your own life experiences and applying them to an entire generation. If you're daughter is a spoiled brat it sounds like it's because your ex is a spoiled brat. Perhaps the reason so many upper middle class kids of my generation are so spoiled is because they're the progeny of shallow, self centered, and ultimately incredibly spoiled parents?

Personally I would have no idea what that is like. People like me are not an outlier. If you look at the economic data more children are growing up fairly poor than ever. And guess what? Having an Iphone doesn't mean you aren't poor. Poor people spend money poorly, a trait that is passed from parent to child. Poor people buy things as status symbols before they upgrade the quality of food their children eat.

There were spoiled brat children when you were a kid. There WERE probably fewer of them back then, because kids were being raised by people who had lived through the depression. Depression survivors saved at a very high rate (which they left to your generation), and were much less likely to spoil their kids. They thought the boomers were incredibly spoiled.

seeing as you seem to have a comprehension problem, I am backing out of this. I expressed an anecdote about a single time with a 3 year old, and you go all nutso. I'd say you have issues.

Bigoldnit · 07-20-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeucesAx

from wiki:

Right, the model tries to replicate the spending habits of a "typical consumer," but (a) the model way underestimates the impact of educational costs on milennials because a higher percentage of that age group is currently in school than the percentage of overall consumers that are in school, and (b) could underestimate the cost of healthcare on milennials because older folks are more likely to receive subsidized healthcare through employers or medicare (but I'm not sure about that because older folks also tend to have higher medical costs, so maybe that balances out).

So, as I said, if the basket of goods being used to determine the CPI does not accurately reflect the way that a certain group actually allocates its resources, and one of the things that that group spends a high percentage of its resources on is growing at a particularly high rate then the inflation number alone might not present a completely accurate picture of how much purchasing power that particular group has...

Almond · 07-21-2012, 07:56 PM

Echoing the original article, I recall recently the Washington Post had a piece on problems our youth face.

"There Are No Winners In The War Against The Young"

http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...lready-losing/

snippet from the piece:

Quote:

That’s the reality, writes Matt Miller in the Washington Post:
You [younger Americans] are in big trouble. You don’t even know it. You’re busy trying to get a degree, land a job, start a family, save for a home. You don’t follow the news. But trust me—you’ve been taken for a ride by your elders. . . .
The job market for young people is a disaster, the toll of a burst financial and housing bubble that both parties let fester. The crisis has reached the point where years of unpaid labor (in the form of internships) have become a way of life for millions of Americans in their 20s.
Our K-12 schools have slid from the best in the world to mediocre under both Republican and Democratic presidents and governors. That’s largely because for decades we’ve embraced a bipartisan policy of recruiting middling students to become teachers.
Our roads, bridges, sewers, airports and power grids desperately need upgrades. Our investments in research and development as a share of our economy trail that of our peers. Republicans don’t seem to care. Democrats care enough to propose token sums that would fund a fraction of the need.
There’s no cash for such investments in the future because pension and health-care programs for seniors (plus a bloated Pentagon) take up so much of the budget. At the federal level, seven dollars go to programs supporting elderly consumption for every dollar invested in people under 18. Nationally (after taking account of the fact that most education is paid for at the state and local level), the ratio is still 2 1 / 2 to one…
Want more? For years, states have let public pension managers assume their investments would grow 7.5 or 8 percent a year, when 3 to 6 percent has been more realistic. This bipartisan ploy hides trillions more in pension shortfalls, funds that will have to be forked over one day by (you guessed it) younger Americans.
Read the whole thing. Miller echoes arguments Via Meadia has been making for some time. The evidence is devastating, but as Miller concludes, young people haven’t woken up to the dangers, even as the policies that turn the screws on them have gone on for years.
In 1995, when I was a (younger) generational equity worrywart, I asked then-Sen. Alan Simpson how to fix what was clearly coming. Simpson told me nothing would change until someone like me could walk into his office and say, “I’m from the American Association of Young People. We have 30 million members, and we’re watching you, Simpson. You [mess with] us and we’ll take you out.”
Will the kids wake up one day soon? Will anything be done to save them from paying their elders’ bills in addition to the hefty bills for other responsibilities and desires like having a family or buying a home?
This is partly because we’ve had two generations of older people behave with extreme shortsightedness and selfishness: the Boomers and their immediate heirs have been chasing unicorns and building their self esteem while neglecting their basic duties. But as Miller acknowledges it’s also partly because the challenges we face today are unusually hard. Many of our core systems — government, education, health care — are becoming impossibly expensive and unproductive given the demands that contemporary life puts on them.
America needs an upgrade, and young people need it more than anybody else. The old ways of doing things are gradually choking the life out of the country and making it harder and harder for people to do very simple things — like starting a family, raising, kids, preparing for retirement....

BoredSocial · 07-21-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cres

seeing as you seem to have a comprehension problem, I am backing out of this. I expressed an anecdote about a single time with a 3 year old, and you go all nutso. I'd say you have issues.

I'm sorry you don't know what the word 'If' means. It was a reasonable supposition to make based on the tone of your posts towards an entire generation. So far you haven't said a single thing in any of your posts in this thread that had any validity whatsoever.

If you want to convince me that my generation is self centered and lazy I would really appreciate you show me actual numbers or facts that show this. I can definitively show that the baby boom generation has during their voting lives never voted for any politician who was willing to face reality rather than pander to you. That's an example of a relevant fact that allows me to claim that my position is valid. My position is that the baby boomers are the most worthless piece of **** generation in the history of the United States.

neg3sd · 07-22-2012, 10:24 AM

Bored, you are completing missing the point. While what you say may be true for much of the younger generation, collectively they got screwed by the seniors. Politicians worldwide promised more benefits to seniors than seniors paid for. A policeman can't work for 20-5 years and receive a pension for 30+ years at max salary. The math doesn't work for local governments.